Do NOT buy/use Profiles Software

[tpondel]

As of noon today we are officially "out of business" due to Profiles Software.

Three months ago we sent them the one year renewal fee.

The "update"? has been a disaster.

We had two computers accessing one database. That has not worked ONE day since the update. When asked, they say they have NO idea how to fix.

Two weeks ago we received a message that our software was expiring and needed authorization. This, even though we did the same three months ago.

We left several messages (since tech support is NEVER available.) Received a call back yesterday saying "download this upgrade but I can;t hold with you since I am too busy." (Really.. thats what they said.)

Today, the software stopped working. So we cannot do planning because of a HORRIBLE software.

If you are considering Profiles or looking at the upgrade, I recommend you don't. I will be contacting the Better Business Bureau and asking for a FULL refund. I will also write to ALL the FP magazines telling them my story.

This is INEXCUSABLE!

Amber

[Zek, The Grand Nagus]

I agree with your assessment that their tech support is substandard.

It works fine for my single-user self, but I will keep your troubles in the back of my mind.

Ron

[jhohenstein]

I am having the same experience. How could EISI ruin something that has been so good?

[The Wedge]

I thought PEOPLE did financial planning?

Is your 12c not working? Pen out of ink?

Notice that if you HAVE to rely upon software, it shows that you are as good as a $12/hr data entry person.

[Zek, The Grand Nagus]

Skip, what's the difference between a $12 per hour Profiles user and someone with a HP12c?

It doesn't matter what your presentation style is, calculator or software.

Your post holds no water.

Ron

[Zek, The Grand Nagus]

It's been good program, but it hasn't been that good. My first experience with Profiles, back in 2000, is that it was riddled with bugs. Unfortunately, I was forced to use it, and had to apply a ton of workarounds.

It's been okay between 2003 and 2006.

Ron

[Lucullus]

Skippy writes -

"I thought PEOPLE did financial planning?

Is your 12c not working? Pen out of ink?

Notice that if you HAVE to rely upon software, it shows that you are as good as a $12/hr data entry person."

That sounds good - until one realizes that good software can enable a planner to evaluate strategies that he or she simply could not evaluate, on a cost-effective basis, IF AT ALL, with a pencil, pad, and calculator.

I can examine "What If" scenarios using good software easily and accurately, in a short time that, using a calculator, I would spend many hours modeling (if I could model at all).

This is better for me and it's better for my client.

If you're the short of planner who can take an HP-12C and show the impact on cash flow and tax liability of holding a large chunk of ISOs vs. diversifying out of that concentration, my hat's off to you.

We mere mortals must rely upon the best tools to get the job done.

John Olsen

[Lucullus]

Amber,

You write "We had two computers accessing one database. That has not worked ONE day since the update. When asked, they say they have NO idea how to fix."

Were you paying for two licenses for the software, or were you trying to use the software on two computer, but paying for only one license?

I asked my guy at Profiles about your complaint and his response was "You are not allowed to install the software on more than one computer. With the latest release, we locked some of the abuse out."

Did Profiles not offer you a second copy at a discount when you called them, complaining about this problem?

John Olsen

[Lucullus]

Jason,

What problems are you encountering? How has EISI "ruined" Profiles?

I ask because I've been working with some clients who were mad at Profiles for having defects that were and are not defects -

for example:

"missing" reports that aren't missing (they're merely retrievable from a different menu)

inability to import existing cases into 8.0. (the client had never read the extensive explanation on the EISI website of how to do this)

I see this sort of thing a lot. I've had clients tell me that Wealthtec won't import client files from one module to another. It will, but you have to know how to do it, which means you have to read the instructions. Now, I don't dispute that it's easy to make mistakes in importing. I've done so more than my share of the time. Importing cases in WealthTec, like dong some things in Profiles, is not as easy or goof-proof as one would like. But it's doable IF YOU DEVOTE THE TIME AND ENERGY TO LEARN HOW TO DO IT.

I'll complain about genuine software "bugs" and "glitches" at least as loudly as anyone else. But I won't call something a "bug" without having investigated whether I was following the correct procedure.

John Olsen

[tpondel]

John:
What return phone calls?

Amber

[Zek, The Grand Nagus]

John, you are so eloquent.

Ron

[Lucullus]

Amber,

Did you put Profiles on two machines but pay for only one license? If so, that would account for the functionality problems you encountered.

[tpondel]

John:
We explained EVERYTHING we were doing. This is the first time I have heard about a licensing issue. Ya think maybe they should have mentioned that before?

They prob didn't explain it because we never hear back from them.

[Lucullus]

Amber,

You seem to be saying that you reported to Profiles tech support that you had installed your copy of Profiles Professional on two machines and that the two copies were accessing a single database, that this arrangement had worked under 7.6 but would not work under 8.0, and that no one in tech support mentioned that you needed two licenses to be running the program on two machines. Is that correct?

If that's what happened, I can certainly appreciate your frustration. I would have been frustated too.

In fact, I've been running Profiles AND NaviPlan on two machines for years, and, every time there's an upgrade or a license renewal, I have to go through the process of getting the appropriate license/user file on each machine.

From what you've said and what I've learned from EISI, the solution to your problem was your purchase of a second license. Was that ever considered?

John Olsen

[tpondel]

John:
Your post is 100% correct. I told them what we were doing and NO ONE ever said we needed two.

We have been unable to produce plans now for three days. That's three days of calling clients and telling them we need to reschedule. To me, that is unacceptable.

Given that experience and adding on the lack of access to the tech support staff leaves me no alternative but to look elsewhere for my planning solutions.

Amber

[Lucullus]

Amber,

As I said before, I can understand your frustration. I, too, have experienced the "cannot get through to a live person" AND "can't get a return call" with regard to Profiles products.

The exact opposite has been my experience with NaviPlan tech support. I almost always got through to a live tech support person and, when I didn't, I'd get a return call promptly.

For what it's worth to you - and I don't expect it's worth much - I've relayed our dialogue to my contact at EISI, including my observation that I've had the same experience in communicating with Profiles tech support as you've described.

- John Olsen

[tpondel]

John:
Thanks. Your observations only strengthen my feeling that EISI will eventually abandon Profiles and only sell NaviPlan. Make the decision to change softwares inevitable.

Amber

[Lucullus]

Amber,

I DO NOT believe that EISI will abandon Profiles. It makes no sense for them to do so, in my judgment. Profiles does a very different job than Naviplan does, and appeals to a rather different market. EISI bought Profiles to take advantage of those facts.

I use NaviPlan AND Profiles. Some client/case situations call for one; others call for the other.

That said, EISI had better get Profiles CUSTOMER SUPPORT up to the level of NaviPlan's, or it's going to have serious problems, in my opinion.

John Olsen

[Advocate]

skippy wrote:

> I thought PEOPLE did financial planning?
>
> Is your 12c not working? Pen out of ink?
>
> Notice that if you HAVE to rely upon software, it shows that
> you are as good as a $12/hr data entry person.

This is the only post that makes sense and I'd argue what's the 12c for?

I use software, calcualtors and other tools in my practice; however, NONE of that is necessary.

Sometimes a pen and a napkin are enough.

Planning is a process and conveying knowledge requires no software.

Y'all are handicapped.

[jhohenstein]

I recently downloaded the most recent update to 8.0 from EISI's website. Upon downloading the software and rentereing I was required to athorize my software. Which required numerous phone calls and many thankless minutes on hold. Finally talked with someone in the EISI authorization department and worked for an entire day with the software.

The next day start up the laptop double click the icon and I am asked to authorize my software again. I have now called numerous times with no resolve.

If I am willing to stay on hold to talk with someone I should have that choice.

I had this experience when I used Naviplan for a year. That was why I stayed with Profiles.

[tpondel]

John:
one last thing.. I never recv a call or even an email from EISI saying "hey, sorry this is happening."

Compare this to the things written about how LPL handled their system wide issues. They at least stepped up and said "this is unacceptable and we take responsibility." EISI has not said anything.

Based on the various posts here and elsewhere, it seems like its a hit or miss situation. But no one argues that they have NOT put enough resources out there to correct the problems.

I'm done venting here about Profiles. I'm moving on to another software.

Amber

[Lucullus]

"Sometimes a pen and a napkin are enough."

That's true, if you're trying to convey information at the conceptual level. In fact, I'd argue that you often don't need either the pen or the napkin at that level.

But if the goal is to (a) discover whether Strategy A or Strategy B will produce the best values in a case involving a lot of variables and (b) illustrate and substantiate your recommendation for the winning strategy, then a pen and napkin often cannot do the job, because an accurate and truthful answer will often require more calculations than you can stick on that napkin (assuming you can do calculus in your head).

Of course, if you've already decided on the winning strategy and don't care to be bothered with a lot of silly facts, a pen and napkin might do the job. Especially if you plan to toss away the napkin afterwards.

John Olsen

[Zek, The Grand Nagus]

I have had a similar experience as Jason.

Ron

[Advocate]

John L. Olsen, CLU, ChFC, AEP wrote:

> Of course, if you've already decided on the winning strategy
> and don't care to be bothered with a lot of silly facts, a pen
> and napkin might do the job. Especially if you plan to toss
> away the napkin afterwards.
>
> John Olsen


Nice try.

I agree often the pen and napkin aren't needed and I do agree that to compare two or more strategies in detail will require more work but not really anything more complex than a simple spreadsheet.

As far as concept vs. detail, most people prefer the concept. Profiles casues most people's eyes to gloss over and they aren't interested in 600 pretty pages that they can't read.

Of course, this assumes the advisor is capable of reading the Profiles plan or that they can even run the software :)

[Lucullus]

CA:

Nice try yourself.

The fatal problem with your approach occurs when the concept involves factors sufficiently complex that one cannot know if the concept works without examining the details.

This is quite common in estate planning. For example, one can talk all one wants about "rolling GRATs", but the concept works only when an examination of the cash flow and capital sum details, with due regard for taxation, shows that it does.

Stock Option Exercise planning is the same sort of problem.

Not all planning problems are like this, but many are.

Many advisors choose to ignore details, for various expressed reasons. For example, I've seen presentations involving cute colored boxes that purport to show how one can achieve double digit returns from an asset that is backed by bonds. Just how that can be achieved was never explained - except "conceptually". And if I asked to see the NUMBERS supporting the concept, I was told that I was simply "close minded".

If demanding evidence before buying a pig in a poke is "close minded", I happily plead guilty.

- John Olsen

[Advocate]

I agree with you John. My point is that the advisor needs to know the details -- the client probably doesn't want to.

Of course, the advisor had beter be prepared to produce the details if the client asks -- most never will.

Either way, Profiles doesn't provide usefull details. Or, customer service apparently.

[Lucullus]

CA:

I don't disagree with the idea that most clients don't want to hear the details. They want to know that the trusted advisor looked at 'em, though.

In some cases, of course, the client DOES want to know the details. (Does the word "engineer" suggest anything?)

I disagree, however, that Profiles doesn't provide the details. I believe that Profiles does a DANDY job of striking a balance between "here are the details" (which are available for presentation to the client, IF THAT'S WHAT IS DESIRED) and "here's the IMPACT!".

Profiles - again, in my OPINION - is arguably the BEST financial planning software out there to offer deliverables that can help the advisor get the client to TAKE ACTION!

I do NOT feel nearly so sanguine about Profiles' customer support - as I've made clear.

John Olsen

[Zek, The Grand Nagus]

I disagree. Profiles has some handy charts, like showing how RMDs shove people's income higher. That helps me with the Roth sale.

Ron

[The Wedge]

Ron "Banned from Camp" Mexico wrote:

> Skip, what's the difference between a $12 per hour Profiles
> user and someone with a HP12c?
>
> It doesn't matter what your presentation style is, calculator
> or software.
>
> Your post holds no water.
>
> Ron

You're right! Your PRESENTATION doesn't matter.

What MATTERS is that you HAVE the presentation! If you're out of business when 1 tool doesn't work, you're not much of an advisor.

[anonymous]

"Profiles - again, in my OPINION - is arguably the BEST financial planning software out there to offer deliverables that can help the advisor get the client to TAKE ACTION!"

I think that it is great sales skills that get the client to take action. John, I agree with your statement when the use of a Profiles presentation matches up with the salesman's selling style.

Doesn't Profiles understate the person's needs for their specific goal? Let me give you an example and please tell me if I'm right or wrong.

Ex.
Assume that inflation is 0% and client won't get any social security. The client wants $70,000/year in income and we assume a 7% return in retirement. Also, assume that the client doesn't want to eat into principle. Will the software say that the client only needs $1,000,000?

[amarkell]

> skippy wrote:
> > I thought PEOPLE did financial planning?
> > Is your 12c not working?
> > Notice that if you HAVE to rely upon software, it shows that > > you are as good as a $12/hr data entry person.
> I use software, calcualtors and other tools in my practice;
> however, NONE of that is necessary.
> Sometimes a pen and a napkin are enough.

I do not think you can get the best answer without using a computer.

[hitek]

Interesting thread... I have Moneytree software and, while it's not perfect, the customer support is quite good. My only big complaint is that I can't get e-mails from them for some reason. Anything that they send me will not go through including data entered into their online application.

This really concerns me. I had just spoken to someone who uses Profiles and I was seriously going to consider it but, after hearing all of this, I'm going to pass.

In the meantime, has anyone else experienced similar problems with Moneytree to what I've mentioned above? Also, any comments on Moneyguide Pro?

Fran