Marketing a mutual fund.

[Zek, The Grand Nagus]

Here's what I want to accomplish:

I have an index fund with the following statistics (January 1985 - December 2007):

• Annualized Return = 11.50%
• Standard Deviation = 5.95%
• Correlation to S&P500 = -0.075%
• Worst Calendar Year Return = +3.18%

I think it's a great alternative to owning equities, and I want people to own this as a core holding outside of their current employer's 401(k) plan.

My distribution channel is e-mail, due to low cost.  I might do something with SurveyMonkey.com, but I think I'm going to have a hard time getting this through compliance.

My question is, has anyone used an internet-based solution to create interest in a product, and get someone to cough up a name and a phone number for me to call them, or to spark them to call me?

Thanks!

Ron

[Jack Black]

Ron:

What is the smybol?

I would like to take a look at a fund with the returns and correlation you list.

 

[Zek, The Grand Nagus]

Tit for tat, Jack.  I'll give you the ticker symbol, if you give me something intelligent I can use.

Ron

[Jack Black]

Ron:

Be a mecsch, and help a guy out. It does not cost you a thing. It might even help you. If people put more money into the fund they may lower there expense ratio. (Do not hold your breath, it almost never happens but one can hope).

As to giving you somethig intelligent, I would have to know how you run your practice to know what is of value to you.  Information has differnt vaule to differnt people. For exsample, if you you are a stock jockey, my advice about financail planning would have little to no value to you.

[Zek, The Grand Nagus]

Spoken like a true salesperson, but with some pretty poor spelling.

Sorry, dude, I gave up doing things for free a while ago.

Ron

[chance]

Unfortunately, they are being marketed using similar distribution channels and touting similar returns.  You wouldn't want to get painted with the same brush.

[Zek, The Grand Nagus]

Kindly remove your post about life settlements.  This post has no place in this thread.

Ron

[Jack Black]

Ron:

Dyslexia strikes again.

Well I will guess that you are a financial planner and not a stock jockey. If you are a financial planner, prospect using group health insurance. I have found that many of the group health insurance plans are poorly designed. Most do not offer HSA account. I have found that you can earn a lot of business by explaining the tax benefits of HSA compatible health insurance to business owners. I get a lot of attention from business owner when I ask them if they would like to pay all there medical expense with pre tax dollars. So my tip is to sell HSA compatible group health insurance plans bundled with a section 125 plan. Your prospect can then pay for all health care cost with pre tax dollars and if they have a section 125 plan in place avoid FICA tax as well.

 

 

 

[Zek, The Grand Nagus]

This doesn't help me market this investment strategy.

Ron

[Jack Black]

Ron:

First, how can I come up with a marketing strategy with out knowing the facts about a fund? Yes, you gave me the following data:

 

Annualized Return = 11.50%

Standard Deviation = 5.95%

Correlation to S&P500 = -0.075%

Worst Calendar Year Return = +3.18%

 

However, I do not think that that is enough information to market a fund.  

How long has the fund existed? Did it come into existence in 1985 or does it have and older history?

What are the yearly returns over the last ten years?

Concerning the Standard Deviation, I assume that it is a 22-year number is that correct.

Same question applies to the correlation to the S&P 500.

In what year was it worst return, with out knowing it is useless information.

What are the funds top ten holding?

 

 

Second, why should I help you if you will not help me? You are asking for free work!

 

[Vig Oren]

Here is something:

Start your own Investment Fund

http://www.nexorfund.com/

 

[Roy G]

Here's what I want to accomplish:I have an index fund with the following statistics (January 1985 - December 2007):Annualized Return = 11.50%Standard Deviation = 5.95%Correlation to S&P500 = -0.075%Worst Calendar Year Return = +3.18%I think it's a great alternative to owning equities, and I want people to own this as a core holding outside of their current employer's 401(k) plan.My distribution channel is e-mail, due to low cost. I might do something with SurveyMonkey.com, but I think I'm going to have a hard time getting this through compliance.My question is, has anyone used an internet-based solution to create interest in a product, and get someone to cough up a name and a phone number for me to call them, or to spark them to call me?Thanks!Ron

Ron, you come across as a scam artist parading around on a professional website. Each and every one of the participants on this site GIVE of themselves to assist other planners, offer advice, and mentor others in our profession. If you read the rules and had any history about the abuses that this website used to have before it was relaunched and tightened up, you might realize that your attitiude is detremental to the betterment of our profession. Each and every one of us has some form of duty of care to our clients. Sounds like you are not trusting and if that is the case, this is not the place for your one way questions. Remember the golden rule; well there is a corolary which says "do not do onto others as you would not want done to you" So take a shot at me if you wish, but that is my opinion. You are not likely to get much feed back.


Sounds like a thinly veiled advertisement to me. Are you trolling?

Virginia Planner

[Bradly T.]

Don't believe you Ron...no way can you have an annualized return more than double your deviation, theoretically and mathematically impossible, not improbable, impossible. Unless you're selling a mafia style protection racket where you assasinate your risks. Or run a gaming table as the house. Or your name is Madoff and you create your own false statements. You want to sell what you don't have. Your temperment is your eternal downfall. I'd recommend a marketing manager to reduce your course arrogance...Put up or shut up. What are you selling that doesn't exist? As was suggested, are you talking life settlements or a tax shelter where taxes not paid are calculated as returns?? Thanx Virginia, stay tuned...

[debaser]

Ron,


Why not pick up the ol' phone and start dialing for dollars? It may not be the easiest method, but it is the most cost-effective. I mean, if direct mailers or emails worked on any grand scale, the investment and insurance companies would do away with all of us and deal with the public directly. Also, if you've presented this fund to a client and they've been happy with the results, what is stopping them from referring as many friends, colleagues, and family members as possible?

[Zek, The Grand Nagus]

Brad, in my hand, I have a 1st quarter, 2009 FINRA-approved piece from a well-known mutual fund family that proves it.

Here's the ticker: RYMFX.

Go to their website, and download the "financial professional" version of the fact sheet. The numbers that were quoted here were probably 2nd quarter, 2008. The current numbers are not that dramatically different.

It's had a VERY slow year in 2009, but with a 3-year holding period, I'm comfortable that it will produce the returns I'm looking for. I'm also comfortable that it's not nearly as fickle as stocks, which are influenced by so many outside forces that screw with people's lives.

Throughout the first 6 months of the year, I did pull a portion of it out to buy some cheap stocks. Suffice it to say, I made a killing on that. So, I'm thinking about skinnying down my equity piece and going back into RYMFX.

I'm open to any thoughtful opinions. Those with negative feedback, feel free to reply, but be forewarned that I'm quick with the delete button.

Ron

[Zek, The Grand Nagus]

p.s. for those with such heinous things to say (Brad & Virginia), I formally give you the sign of "the bird". You are the type of personalities that have turned me into an entrepreneur-hater.

Ron

[Rocket, CFP(R)]

Here's what I want to accomplish:I have an index fund with the following statistics (January 1985 - December 2007):Annualized Return = 11.50%Standard Deviation = 5.95%Correlation to S&P500 = -0.075%Worst Calendar Year Return = +3.18%I think it's a great alternative to owning equities, and I want people to own this as a core holding outside of their current employer's 401(k) plan.My distribution channel is e-mail, due to low cost. I might do something with SurveyMonkey.com, but I think I'm going to have a hard time getting this through compliance.My question is, has anyone used an internet-based solution to create interest in a product, and get someone to cough up a name and a phone number for me to call them, or to spark them to call me?Thanks!Ron

Your mutual fund has a substantially lower standard deviation than investment grade bonds, That is really special Ron. Is this one of your oil and gas limited partnership ventures ???



Standard Deviations

Heinz 24%

Coca-Cola 27%

Microsoft 48%

Sony 48%

Pfizer 24%

Google 57%

General Electric 28%

Intel 51%

Index

Large Cap 20%

Mid Cap 24%

Small Cap 30%

Developed Markets 25%

Emerging Markets 33%

High Yield Bonds 13%

Invest. Grade Bonds 7%

[Bradly T.]

Rocket - Actually Ron IS on to something....just not what he thinks. The fund he wants to "market" is readily available by Rydex, he finally gave us the symbol. However, the stats he quotes, while impressive do NOT exist in fact, as per the fact sheet provided on site. The fund has less than a two year history and is accurate in its disclosure that, indeed, no fund matches the index Ron quoted, including this one. The history misquoted is for the S&P Diversified Trends Indicator (DTI), 50% commodities futures and 50% currency and treasuries futures, all held either long or short and rebalanced to fixed allocations. Actually, the index has a very good, noncorelated, and seemingly low deviation with 23 years of positive returns (except for the following disclosure: "For purposes of analysis, S&P contructed a pro forma version of the S&P DTI from January 1985 through December 2003. Data for the S&P DTI reflects actual performance beginning January 2004..." plus another 100 lines of exceptions and qualifications that are either not reflected or changed to look better....of course, the fund itself is less than 2 years old and does not match the DTI index....which of course does not and has never existed except as a theoretical, backward exercise in "what if". The backwards "what if" can never be duplicated going forward due to the many exceptions listed to its so called allocation "discipline".


While futures and options have provided some covariance and hedging allocation results, a recent article in Investment Advisor quoted the president of the futures council as saying that 10% of futures traders delivered 90% of the index results measured and due diligence was of utmost importance and so was a "limited exposure and allocation to this highly volatile strategy". Now Rydex does have an impressive record and many VAs use them to hedge and reduce volatility, so I certainly don't disparage the strategy or Rydex. But for Ron to first pretend he's invented and patented the holy grail and then misrepresent the clear disclosures Rydex publishes does expose him as a piker. He has joined the Bill Donahue Brigade of miscreants and frauds trying desperately to sell something to someone. Something anyone can buy anytime directly in 4 share classes to be held in any platform any licensed advisor is affiliated with.



And while I might, and do, trust Rydex with client $$ due to their experience and disclosures, who in their right mind would give client $$ to Ron Mexico or Bill Donahue....Lord save us all from freaks and frauds, liars and thieves, regulators and lawyers....no wonder our industry is in such a mess. Virginia, I told you this would get interesting...please don't let anyone get you to hold your peace. It is up to true professionals to expose the others, especially to each other.

[Bradly T.]

Sorry, forgot an important detail....fund has std deviation of around 20, not 6. Has reached same highs and lows twice in its short 2 year history. From 24.50 to 30.50 and back down to 24.50 and down over 2% ytd 2009. While not as volatile as stock market in either direction, two $6 swings in two years is NOT std deviation of 6 - 6 dollars on a $24 share price up and 6 dollars on a $30 share price down is not a 6% deviation. The deviation Ron quotes is for a theortical and nonexistent index cooked up by some wise guys with a very sharp pencil creating a work of fiction (by the way, Rydex did not create this fiction, they are trying to use it going forward as a hedging strategy to protect real "core" allocations - they are looking for alpha and I hope they find some...we could us it!) Remember advisors, "if it sounds too good to be true....run like hell!"...and be sure to take your client's $$ with you.

[Zek, The Grand Nagus]

Brad is correct in stating that a lot of the history is pro-forma. However, the currency & commodities markets have shown themselves show very long-term trends, much unlike stocks. It's design is to capture the trend based on a 7-month moving average.

Where Brad is mistaken, is that I never said anything about "pretend he's invented and patented the holy grail". I'm merely marketing the fund to new and prospective clients as an alternative to stocks and/or bonds. I do go through Rydex, and don't try to replicate the strategy on my own. This "holy grail" thing is merely your mouth flapping based on your overblown ego.

Brad, your two-year history is also inaccurate. Why don't you skinny down the time frame to skew your numbers further?

and you're dogging on me? what a joke.

Ron

[Zek, The Grand Nagus]

Rocket, do some research before flapping your gums.

Go market some DPPs as liquid and conservative investments, punk.

Ron

[Zek, The Grand Nagus]

p.s. can someone tell me why it's bad to have moved into rymfx last year, and watched it go UP, why everyone else's portfolios went down by 20-30%?

can someone tell me why it's bad to have moved half out of rymfx this year, into stocks, and recognized a huge gain so far this year?

can someone tell me why i shouldn't clean out my stock profits and go back into rymfx?

can someone tell me why rymfx isn't a better idea than bonds, since rates are so low & prices are so high right now?

can someone tell me why this is so wrong? i doubt it - at least not in a convincing way.

Ron

[Zek, The Grand Nagus]

Arguing choices of investments and strategy went against one of my rules, that I don't debate with people who are trained to overcome objections.

Signing off this topic. PEACE OUT!

Ron

[Bradly T.]

Ron - While there is NOTHING wrong with discussing/debating the use of commodities, currencies, futures, market timing, tactical allocations, etc., as portfolio strategies, there is something VERY wrong in misrepresentation, distortion, and falsehoods presented as facts, especially tied to a self serving marketing pitch!!


You presented a lie as a truth and now, like B. Donahue, you want to run away when exposed. Your choice. But this forum is for education, elucidation, discussion, and debate for professionals and newbies to SHARE issues of great importance to our practice, profession, and industry. Your attitude and your misrepresentations are not helpful or welcome. While there are professionals here who do know better and can spot a fraud, there are others who can be misled and misinformed by the self serving miscreants who also stalk these forums.



As to your questions two posts ago, "what's wrong with....", the answer is "nothing necesarily". But the real issue you raise is "when" do you time your moves and "why" you time your moves and can you do it "before" the market moves in either direction? Another interesting question would be, had you asked, is what is the role commodities, currencies, and futures have in hedging risk and delivering alpha to a portfolio. And you COULD have promoted the RYMFX Rydex fund as a fund trying to duplicate an invented and fictional index which, if it had existed, demonstrates an amazing deviation and annual positive return with low stock corelation. Your methods expose your madness...and your danger.



The 2 year (actually 30 month) graph is on page one of the fund info site. Prices and volatility are well displayed. One year upside was 25%, next year's downside was 20%. Annual deviation for life of fund exceeds 20%. What do you think I am misrepresenting? Fund was very corelated to 2008 black swan broad market experience but cycled differently and does have a positive 30 month return of 4.8% - not bad! Interesting fund and concept...I only wish that was how it was presented originally. And I personally would NOT consider it a core holding nor would I try timing moves in and out of it or any other allocation position but I guess that's not the discussion we're having...too bad.