In a new episode of the Financial Planning Podcast, Robert Sandrew discusses the frantic pace of movement in the financial services industry and the role he plays as a recruiter in helping advisors find a new home at his firm.
Sandrew,
Much of Sandrew’s focus these days is all about finding the right fit and bringing the right kind of talent into the organization. In his view, for advisors on the move to truly compete, they have to take a more holistic approach to the profession with planning as a cornerstone.
He also continues to grapple with what to do when an interested advisor or team is the wrong fit and the difficulties that come with having that conversation without hurting feelings.
During his conversation with FP Podcast host and lead editorial producer
“I will tell you, if I didn’t leave when I was at Bear Stearns during the crisis and having a front-row seat, I’m not leaving,” Sandrew told Mack. “It was a crazy time, but I learned a lot from it.”
Listen to the new episode — as well as all future and past episodes — by subscribing to the FP Podcast on
Transcription:
00;00;03;03 - 00;00;22;15
Justin L. Mack
Good morning. Good afternoon and good evening. Welcome to the Financial Planning Podcast. I'm your host Justin L. Mack. Reporter with Financial Planning and it is my absolute pleasure to welcome today's guest Rob Sandrew, who is the Chief Growth Officer at Integrated Partners. Rob, thanks so much for taking the time to hang out with us today on the old virtual couch.
00;00;22;26 - 00;00;24;12
Rob Sandrew
Well, thank you for having me. It's a pleasure.
00;00;24;19 - 00;00;59;04
Justin L. Mack
Absolutely. Now, Rob brings to the industry and today's episode more than 20 years of experience in the area, an independent broker dealer space. In his role as chief growth officer, Rob is tasked with overseeing recruiting initiatives at Integrated Partners. And he got his start wholesaling and calling on the RIAA market in the nineties as Wall Street experience includes Bear Stearns during the financial crisis and also LPL Financial And if his name is ringing a bell for some of our readers, that's because we had a chance to connect with Rob late last year, and he helped us out on a story which is also going to be part of today's topic.
00;00;59;12 - 00;01;20;09
Justin L. Mack
Moving around in the industry, going independent, all of the action that everyone has been seeing and experiencing in the financial services industry. And Rob, with his experience as a recruiter, was able to bring some great context about what it looks like when an advisor goes independent and things to keep an eye out on that you might not be paying attention to when you're getting ready to make that move.
00;01;20;19 - 00;01;37;24
Justin L. Mack
Now, Rob, like I said, we've had a chance to talk a little bit before, and you've helped our readers out kind of navigate that really interesting minefield that can happen sometimes when you are making a move or going independent. What are you seeing now? We're in a new year, but that activity, I imagine, hasn't slowed down at all.
00;01;38;16 - 00;02;04;27
Rob Sandrew
It has not slowed down whatsoever. I think it might even accelerate, has accelerated since the end of the year. It just seems like really everyone is is doing some some level of due diligence out there, trying to figure out if a move is something in the cards or, you know, I think just overall it's a good idea to to to maybe kind of poke your head up, so to speak, and just make sure that you're in the right place on the right model, so so to speak.
00;02;05;05 - 00;02;28;04
Justin L. Mack
Absolutely. And one thing that really interests me is your role in all that movement is because we often think about what's happening on the firm level or the advisor level. But you are tasked with finding that talent, finding the right fit, bringing them into the family. So what's that like? And how has that changed over your 20 years of doing this job, especially now as we sit in a pandemic where going out and meeting people isn't as easy as it used to be.
00;02;28;18 - 00;02;31;19
Justin L. Mack
What's it look like now when you're trying to find the right fit for integrated partners?
00;02;31;23 - 00;02;52;04
Rob Sandrew
I'll tell you that that part, in terms of not being face to face, I'm very much a relational guy. And that's a that's a tough one. And I think everyone has had to adjust to that zoom and everything else. And, you know, we're all making do. But but again, I think the businesses involved firms that really want to play in the space continue to evolve and they have to evolve and continue to evolve.
00;02;52;16 - 00;03;20;00
Rob Sandrew
And it's one in which, you know, we're we're really laser focused on bringing the right type of advisors into the organization. And I think, conversely, these advisors seem to be pretty well-educated in terms of what they're looking for. Out in the marketplace. So it's I think it's a really great time to be, you know, quite frankly, both sides in terms of being on on my side and working with a very well-educated advisors that are looking for a potential new home.
00;03;20;11 - 00;03;37;28
Rob Sandrew
And conversely, on the on the advisor side, there's just so much information out there. It's it's really, I think, a great place to be in terms of finding the right information, finding guidance, the overall data that's available to really pinpoint where exactly they should be looking in terms of a new home.
00;03;38;09 - 00;03;55;19
Justin L. Mack
Absolutely. And what stands out is as what advisors are looking for. And reason I ask that question is kind of because of what we've seen and what we've had a chance to cover it, financial planning. And as far as the amount of talent that is out there. It is first quarter, it's earnings season time and we're getting everyone's quarterly reports.
00;03;55;19 - 00;04;13;12
Justin L. Mack
And one thing we see quite a bit along with earnings going up, is that a lot of the big wire houses and firms have fewer advisors under their umbrella. But we do know that there's more advisors than ever because at the same time we reported that the CFP board just celebrated its biggest, most diverse class of all time.
00;04;13;18 - 00;04;22;15
Justin L. Mack
So you've got more talent out there. They're not all in the traditional places, but they're going somewhere. What are they looking for when they when they come to you? What's appealing for these advisors?
00;04;22;17 - 00;04;42;15
Rob Sandrew
Well, I will tell you your comment about CFP board and, you know, the amount of, I guess, movement in that direction. You're really preaching to the choir with us because we're very much a planning oriented firm and I think that in order for advisors to really compete in this day and age, they have to be more holistic, they have to be more multidimensional.
00;04;42;23 - 00;05;21;12
Rob Sandrew
And a big part of that. And in our opinion, the cornerstone of that is the planning where we feed our advisors tend to leave with planning. And I think what's going on in the industry is I mean, this has been a trend for a long time, but it's just amazing. You know, you mentioned early on where I started in my career back in the nineties calling on Arias, which was really interesting and almost like a radical, believe it or not, concept to be calling on a registered investment advisor in 1995 because it was such a cottage industry and a big RIAA back then was $100 million, whereas today, you know, a big RIAA is over $10 billion.
00;05;21;12 - 00;05;44;07
Rob Sandrew
We have some that are approaching 100 or over $100 billion. And I think with this massive shift into the independent space and the RIAA space in particular, the capability these are just off the charts. And I think that's what you're seeing in a lot of the wirehouse environments is where, you know, the Wirehouse I think have done a really good job of, of, you know, like we talk about this too.
00;05;44;07 - 00;06;12;25
Rob Sandrew
We know what we are, we know what we're not. And I think they're doing a very good job of bringing the right and retaining the right advisors. But what's happening is that the independent side of things has really caught up from a capabilities perspective. So it's not as if someone needs to be sitting in a large investment banking type organization that happens to have this wirehouse component, and they have all the private banking and all other type of capabilities within that organization.
00;06;13;09 - 00;06;33;19
Rob Sandrew
It's no longer just there. It's on the independent side. And the beauty of the independent side is there's choice. So when these advisors kind of again poke their head up, if you will, within the wire houses and see what's available out there, and the level of sophistication, I mean, we've come, Miles, and just, you know, what 15 years, 20 years.
00;06;33;28 - 00;06;47;12
Rob Sandrew
And I don't see that changing. It's becoming more and more competitive. And we have to keep evolving. And as a as I've said before, you know, the old Wayne Gretzky adage, if you've got to keep skating to where the puck is going, not where it is.
00;06;48;02 - 00;07;09;02
Justin L. Mack
Absolutely. Well said by both yourself and the great one And now the question is, what are you looking for? It's because we talk so much about advisors finding a home that works for them. But when you are looking for that new talent, what is the right fit for integrated partners? And how can advisor who maybe isn't interested in independence but may be looking to make a move to go somewhere less traditional or even smaller?
00;07;09;12 - 00;07;13;28
Justin L. Mack
How can they become more appealing to anyone like yourself who might be looking for that talent?
00;07;14;02 - 00;07;48;23
Rob Sandrew
Well, I think what we're looking for is, is a team or an advisor that is philosophically aligned with us where we want to. As I mentioned before, we're a heavy planning oriented firm, and that is vital. That is absolutely crucial in the discussion. So if someone really comes to us and leads with things like the investment side or leads with, you know, what doesn't happen so much anymore, but used to is what's my payout or what type of money are you going to be providing up front in terms of transition assistance, those type of conversations, they tend to be happening less.
00;07;48;23 - 00;08;08;03
Rob Sandrew
But it's but again, it's one in which you've got to and again, I'm going to now say more broadly, you've got to both sides know what you are and know what you're not, right? So when we're speaking to advisors, we really want to dig in on what's your business model? Where are you today? How did you get there philosophically?
00;08;08;10 - 00;08;24;07
Rob Sandrew
What's your approach? How do you work with clients? Where do you start? Where do you stop? Things like that? And just to ensure that there's some level of alignment. And one thing that I think it's been 20 plus years, as you mentioned, I've been doing this and I feel like I've got a pretty good handle on a space.
00;08;24;07 - 00;08;46;20
Rob Sandrew
The one thing there's probably many, but there's one thing in particular that I still can't get my arms around in terms of how to deliver this is when it's not a fit. When it's not a fit. That's a hard conversation for anybody to have. So we're just really laser focused on finding the right advisory teams. And again, that line of questioning is really important.
00;08;46;20 - 00;08;59;27
Rob Sandrew
But sometimes that's, you know, we need to take a minute, not sure this is the right fit and these are the reasons why. And again, I just haven't been able to successfully figure out how to handle that conversation without somebody not feeling so great about it.
00;09;00;02 - 00;09;22;25
Justin L. Mack
Yeah, definitely do not envy you and having to be in that spot to deliver that. Another guy who asks tough questions for a living. So kudos to you for making that happen. And to our listeners, you are listening to the Financial Planning Podcast. We are here today with our guests, Rob Andrew, the chief growth officer at Integrated Partners We're going to take a quick break to refill the old caffeine and hear a word from our sponsors.
00;09;22;28 - 00;09;23;26
Justin L. Mack
We'll be right back.
00;09;27;03 - 00;09;46;09
Justin L. Mack
And welcome back to the Financial Planning Podcast. I am your host, Justin Omak, chatting with our guest today, Rob Sandra, who is the chief growth officer at Integrated Partners. Now, Rob, something else that stands out to me a lot as far as looking at new talent and movement in the industry is kind of that next generation of advisors and planners.
00;09;46;09 - 00;10;10;01
Justin L. Mack
It's something that financial planning we've focused a lot of coverage on, especially as the industry moves to change and evolve. And we're seeing a push for a more diverse crop of advisors and people with a more diverse experience and just people who may be coming from a world that isn't financial planning. Folks who worked elsewhere for years and are now bringing that experience to the world of financial services in service of clients.
00;10;10;20 - 00;10;25;11
Justin L. Mack
When you see all that change you mentioned before having to keep up with the puck. How much is that change really affecting your approach and how do you get the next generation? Those advisors who might be students now but are absolutely perfect for integrated partners tomorrow?
00;10;25;25 - 00;10;52;07
Rob Sandrew
You know, the the next generation piece is a very, very critical component of our industry. We we just haven't had this infusion of new blood, so to speak, really, and a number of years of training programs that the wirehouse has had pretty much gone away. I think there may be coming back a little bit now, but it's one in which our organization in particular is very focused around that mentoring, that coaching element.
00;10;52;08 - 00;11;22;01
Rob Sandrew
And we do a lot on the study group side and we're typically what we're doing in many cases is we have these larger teams and we want to plug some of those new, you know, that new talent if you will, into these teams to help them both ends in terms of help that the broader team with their bandwidth and they can continue to coach and mentor the next generation while the next generation is learning from, you know, from these more seasoned advisors as well as integrate.
00;11;22;21 - 00;11;41;20
Justin L. Mack
Very cool. And I've seen quite a bit of that to people really focusing on that mentorship arm of bringing in people and getting them aligned with the values of either the firm or the individual practice to make sure that everyone's rolling in the right direction as soon as they kind of join the organization. And I also ask what kind of gets you excited when you're doing your job every single day?
00;11;41;20 - 00;11;56;07
Justin L. Mack
I know as a reporter what gets me excited when I see a story that either we can get or add some some deeper context or start a new conversation for you in what you're doing. When you see a certain thing hit your desk, how do you know? Okay, it's going to be a great day because I got to work on this.
00;11;56;10 - 00;12;18;07
Rob Sandrew
Well, I am a glutton for punishment, so the more complexity the situation has, I tend to really kind of get attracted to that. So, you know, there tends to be move a lot of moving pieces. But I think going back to why I started in the business to begin with, it was I was always fascinated by the fact that the market that, you know, the stock market really continues to change.
00;12;18;18 - 00;12;39;00
Rob Sandrew
You know, you're always learning something. There's always new products out there. You know, Wall Street's always reinventing itself in one way, shape or form. Right where I transitioned over time into this space and into the recruiting side of things. And what I love about it, as I mentioned before, as it's ever evolving, we have to continue to evolve.
00;12;39;00 - 00;12;58;10
Rob Sandrew
We have to continue to get to get better. The beauty, the blessing of the curse on for us on the independent side is one in which advisors are independent, which is fantastic. It's independence in its truest form. They can come and go as they please. And that's actually the downside. We're only good as as our last trade, so to speak.
00;12;58;15 - 00;13;24;24
Rob Sandrew
We have to continue to execute. We have to continue to evolve. And we've done that. And, you know, I'll give you an example of that. We have a CPA program that what we're doing is essentially the CPA is introducing their clients to advisors and then the advisors utilizing our infrastructure to support that client. What we saw over the last handful of years was all these opportunities for business owners that were the clients of the CPAs happen to be business owners.
00;13;25;04 - 00;13;45;01
Rob Sandrew
And we were in this cycle where at the tail end of a business owner cycle, valuations like in our world are very high. So there's a lot of opportunity for these business owners to sell. So we saw this niche and we built out a business owner platform which has really taken off over the last few years where we, you know, again, we partner with that advisor.
00;13;45;01 - 00;14;04;15
Rob Sandrew
We come in as more of the subject matter expert around that business owner side of things where we can take that business owner from really front to back, if you will, in terms of getting them ready for sale, identifying buyers valuations. The transaction we do, the financial and estate planning work, it all dovetails very nicely into our business model.
00;14;04;22 - 00;14;18;13
Rob Sandrew
But that was a relatively new area of Expertize for us over the last handful of years because we saw that market evolving. And that's what I love. We continue to learn new things and we continue to try to just stay ahead of the curve, so to speak.
00;14;18;24 - 00;14;37;15
Justin L. Mack
It definitely, definitely. And like you said that that almost being off balance can be exciting in this industry, how fast it moves in the fact that, you know, what we're seeing as a trend today may not be a trend in three months or even three weeks, as quickly as things are moving and changing and how much people are trying to speculate or maybe plan for what's around the corner.
00;14;37;15 - 00;14;44;29
Justin L. Mack
But you know that your plans might get torn up as soon as something happens and you got to be ready for that. It seems to thrive on that like you did. And that's awesome.
00;14;45;07 - 00;15;02;12
Rob Sandrew
I do. And I think the you know, again, going back to we're only as good as our last rate. Like we're only as good as our retention rate. Our retention rate is is is in the high nineties. 96%. And again, we're very proud of that. But we're also very you know, it's one of those things where you want to retain that high retention rate.
00;15;02;12 - 00;15;14;28
Rob Sandrew
How do you do that? You've got to continue to execute. You've got to continue to evolve. Right? And it's one of we need to continue to be agile and we're continuing to grow, but we're very mindful of keeping that agility there.
00;15;15;14 - 00;15;39;21
Justin L. Mack
Absolutely. And I want to try and pick your brain a little bit for maybe some info that you don't have to tell anybody else. It's just you and I hear we're friends, but we talked a lot about veterans, I promise. We talked about the trends we have seen, of course, with the push towards independence and when what's happening there, what do you see in as far as maybe the next trend, something that you're going to have to tackle in your day to day that maybe hasn't happened yet.
00;15;39;21 - 00;15;48;04
Justin L. Mack
But based on what you've seen, both in your experience over the years and the current trajectory, what's happening next that we might need to kind of buckle up for.
00;15;48;22 - 00;16;06;18
Rob Sandrew
I think if I can maybe just I'll answer that question, but I'm going to back up a little bit on it if I if I may, which is there's a trend that's been happening for a handful of years, but it seems to be accelerating more and more, which is this chasm between the large firms and the small firms.
00;16;06;18 - 00;16;35;26
Rob Sandrew
As I mentioned before, you know, $100 million RIAA when I was wholesaling back in the nineties, you were so pumped up. And it was amazing because there were only a few of them. Now there's many firms that are over $10 billion of assets under management. And, and it continues to again, it's one of those where it seems as if this chasm has been built between the large firms and the small firms, where the large firms are really able to scale up.
00;16;36;00 - 00;16;55;08
Rob Sandrew
And what we're seeing, which I think is a really fascinating trend, is say five years ago, Arias that wanted to essentially tuck into an organization like ours, they would come to us more for I want to get out of the legal the compliance, the tech stack, like I don't want to deal with make middle back office and legal compliance.
00;16;55;24 - 00;17;20;24
Rob Sandrew
It's shifted from that, which is still important, but it's more about scale. And it's it's what's really fascinating is if you look at the opportunities that we're in front of right now, we're talking to 500 million to $3 billion groups that are saying just that we want to get out of that middle and back office and legal and compliance. But that's not why they're coming to a firm like ours.
00;17;21;03 - 00;17;47;11
Rob Sandrew
They're looking for that scale, which is shocking that a 2 billion or $3 billion firm feels as if they don't have the necessary scale to compete because it's it's one of those justices. Why Gap now that is being fought has been formed. It continues to get bigger where firms that are over say you get $10 billion really are accelerating and and growing at a much faster pace then than the smaller firms.
00;17;47;12 - 00;17;52;13
Rob Sandrew
So I don't see that trend stopping anytime soon.
00;17;53;03 - 00;18;16;06
Justin L. Mack
Definitely. Definitely. And then kind of the final thing I'd love to talk to you about is kind of your motivation to even do this in the first place. And the reason I bring that up is we've done a lot of coverage and focus on what it means to even get into the financial services industry. And that kind of goes back to our discussion about the next generation and and finding talent that might be perfect for this job or for this profession who might not realize it.
00;18;16;14 - 00;18;38;13
Justin L. Mack
So I'd love to have your talk on this. And this is kind of, you know, a good vibe send off. I'm all about the good vibes. I've got it on my wall here in my office is is what was it for about this industry for you that attracted you to it has kept you in it for all this time, considering the ups and downs and how crazy it can get and how much negativity can even pop up from time to time, what got you into it and what keeps you going?
00;18;38;16 - 00;18;57;06
Rob Sandrew
I will tell you, if I didn't leave when I was at Bear Stearns during the crisis and having a front row seat, I'm not leaving it was it was a crazy time, but I learned a lot from it. I think, again, it's one of those ever evolving industries. What I really appreciate is I view my role as an incredibly consultative role.
00;18;57;06 - 00;19;20;16
Rob Sandrew
And it's not just about integrated. It's more about the industry. And I view myself as someone that has a pretty decent handle on the industry. And then I can provide some level of guidance. Again, not everyone's going to be a good fit for our organization, but I really do appreciate when I have a conversation with somebody I did this on Monday where I had a conversation with somebody that was looking for something in particular.
00;19;20;19 - 00;19;44;12
Rob Sandrew
It just wasn't in our space. And I said, Here's three firms, you should go talk to use my name. I love that. I absolutely love it, and I really love to be on that side where I can provide guidance to help these advisors in these teams find the right home. And there's I can't tell you how much fulfillment I get when a principal of a firm will call me or send me a note just saying Thank you for everything you've done.
00;19;44;20 - 00;20;05;27
Rob Sandrew
I'm so glad I made the move to independence, whether they're with us or not. It's just a fantastic feeling because it's helping them execute on on their passion, on their dreams and their business model. Probably equal, if not more important, is better supporting their client base. So it's a win all the way around. And again, it's just a great industry that's ever evolving.
00;20;06;04 - 00;20;36;04
Justin L. Mack
Absolutely. And you know, as financial services, the finances might be in front, but the services is right there. It's like you said, it's a people business and it sounds like you've got that love and that passion for working with people and helping people find whatever's right for them or whatever's next for them. All right. And then anything else you'd want to share with the listeners, we want to thank you for taking the time and for helping us out not only on the podcast today, but again, go back and check out the story that Rob helped us out with its tips, advice on how to Retain Your Sanity When Going Independent.
00;20;36;04 - 00;20;54;19
Justin L. Mack
Amid the change and the all the ebbs and flows of the markets. We talk to Rob. We talked to some attorneys that help advisors with making that move, some advisors who have made that move. So check that out and get some more of Rob's thoughts and just anything else you want to leave our listeners with as they embark either on their next journey or just getting back to work?
00;20;55;06 - 00;21;21;12
Rob Sandrew
Yeah, I think it's it's one in which, you know, we talked about it before Justin the last go round, which is the advisor community has a lot of leverage, if you will, in terms of their direction. And and when they go through this due diligence process, they need to be asking some really tough questions and don't jump over some of the more important items.
00;21;21;12 - 00;21;36;12
Rob Sandrew
I said this before. I'll say it again don't don't jump over quarters to get to nickels. You've got to focus not just on the transition, but focus on the long term. It's not about a year from now, it's most likely about five years from now what your future looks like and what the next gen is going to look like.
00;21;36;12 - 00;21;57;12
Rob Sandrew
And how do your your new home, your new partner is going to basically execute and help you, you know, really grow and again, stay ahead of things while the while the industry shifts, you know, and I think if you look at our our firm in particular, and what we've done really well is we've again, we we know what we are.
00;21;57;12 - 00;22;14;17
Rob Sandrew
We know what we're not. And we work with the right teams, which has allowed us to grow pretty considerably over the last four years. And we were a three and a half billion back in 20 in 2016 at the tail end of the year. And now we're over over 12 you know, and it's one of which were very disciplined.
00;22;14;17 - 00;22;29;03
Rob Sandrew
We're very focused on bringing the right groups to the organization. But it goes both ways, right? It has to go both ways. That the due diligence process needs to be on both ends, one in which everybody's getting into the weeds and really understand what's important.
00;22;29;15 - 00;22;56;28
Justin L. Mack
Absolutely. Well, I want to thank you so much for that and for taking the time today, Rob. And I want to thank all of the listeners for tuning in to the Financial Planning Podcast. This episode was produced by Arise It with audio production by Kellie Malone. Special thanks again to our guest, Rob Sandrew of Integrated Partners. Be sure to rate US reviews and subscribe to our content at WW dot financial dash planning dot com forward slash subscribe from financial planning.
00;22;57;03 - 00;22;59;07
Justin L. Mack
I'm Justin L. Mack. Thanks for listening.