Transcription:
Ryan Neal: (
Hello, everyone. Welcome back to invest connect 2021. Uh, I am Ryan Neal, financial planning's technology editor coming, coming to you live from the, uh, financial planning north Manhattan newsroom, AKA my apartment in Washington Heights. Um, and I'm really excited about this panel. This is something we've done in the past, and it's usually one of my favorite sessions at a conference it's, we're getting the, uh, VC and PE perspective. Um, it's something that I know, uh, uh, the wealth tech companies that are in attendance are really interested in hearing from. And, uh, also advisors love hearing about maybe what's coming next industry what's most exciting right now, or maybe what's not so exciting. And I know I get really interested just as a tech reporter, so, uh, I've got a great panel here and I'm gonna kick it to you guys, uh, to introduce yourself, uh, we'll go in, uh, alphabetic order here. So, uh, Jim, do you wanna give just, uh, a little bit of background on you and your firm?
Jim Brown: (
Sure. Uh, I'm uh, Jim Brown, um, the founder and managing partner of Long Ridge Equity Partners, uh, which is a, uh, growth equity firm focused only on FinTech and business technology. About a decade old. We've been investing in wealth tech really from the inception of the firm and have backed, um, some interesting companies, including, uh, Carson, uh, Dynasty as well as Equus.
Ryan Neal: (
All right. Those are names I've heard of. So, uh, we're, you're in the right spot. Uh, Kim, how we we'll shoot to you next?
Kim Mackrill: (
Absolutely. I'm Kim Mackrill and I'm a general partner at Mammoth Scientific, uh, health science and technology venture capital, um, that just launched this past year.
Ryan Neal: (
Great. And Ed, uh, bring it home for us.
Edward Shahnasarian: (
Great. Hi, I'm Ed Shahnasarian. I'm an investor at THL a private equity firm based in Boston. THL has been around for 45 years and invests in middle market growth companies. Uh, we currently own high tower advisors, uh, which is a, uh, large RIA in the U.S.
Ryan Neal: (
Awesome. Thank you. So I love, I love, uh, the, the, the sort of dynamics we have here. We've got, uh, venture capital and growth equity and private equity, kind of you guys all come at the market from a bit of a different place, um, with different perspective, which I'm excited about. Um, so let's go right into it. This is obviously it's a, a tech conference, so we're gonna be focusing on that side of things. I'd love to get your takes on what's exciting in the world advisor tech right now, where, where are you seeing the opportunities? What are you looking for out there? Uh, that really, uh, you know, has you excited about this industry? How about go Kim first? We'll shoot it over to you.
Kim Mackrill: (
Yeah. You know, I think when we are looking at what's happening in technology right now for advisors, I think first of all, we think everything is still very hot. There's a lot of movement that's happening, and there are plenty of firms that are ready to acquire. They're looking to add a lot of value fast, and that's really where acquisition, um, comes into play. So for us, when we're, we're looking at those companies that are seeking to add value to the retail client and the advisor relationship. So for us, anyone who's data driven and design first, those are really exciting spaces for us to be looking at. Um, so really thinking through, you know, what is the experience like for the retail investor from that piece of tech, it raises our eyebrows a bit.
Ryan Neal: (
So are you looking so like that the, that advisor client, uh, uh, engagement technologies, uh, that's, that's stuff that you're really looking at right now?
Kim Mackrill: (
Yep, absolutely.
Ryan Neal: (
Okay, great. Uh, and Ed, how about, uh, how about you? What, what, what has you most excited out there in the, uh, the world of advisor technology?
Edward Shahnasarian: (
Sure. As we talk to advisors, you know, a big, a big focus we consistently hear is growth. Advisors want to grow their businesses quickly. Um, reach the next plateau, um, and to do that, we're seeing more and more of a focus on lead gen in advisor marketing. There's some really interesting, uh, technology firms out there today that are, that are getting advisors leads, clients, you know, better direct marketing capabilities, uh, than there's ever been in the past. And that's helping advisors grow, which is crucial to their business. If it's important to them, we think those are businesses that are, that are gonna grow. And that's why we're focusing so heavily on that area.
Ryan Neal: (
Gotcha. And, you know, this is kinda something I talked with about, uh, Tricia Haskins from fidelity earlier this morning was about, you know, when you support, when you have those technologies to support growth, you also need to have the technologies to, uh, uh, run that business. So to, to take on that growth, right. More efficient practices, uh, uh, you know, kind of that back office stuff. So the advisors can handle more and more clients. And, and Jim, I think when we talked before, that's something that you said your firm's looking a lot at is, uh, uh, some of those back office technologies, the advisors use.
Jim Brown: (
Yeah. We love the whole middle and back office space around, uh, advisors. So, you know, mundane tasks like onboarding and documents and legal, um, areas that you wouldn't necessarily focus on initially that are tougher to do. But when you get in there, they're more sticky. Uh, uh, those areas are very, uh, interesting to us. We're also very interested in how technology can enable the RIAs to sell new products and services, to roll out new products and services like banking, like lending like insurance, which historically have been a lot harder to do. Uh, we think with the advent of technology, um, we're moving closer toward being able to do that.
Ryan Neal: (
Great. And that's actually something that I've been, uh, covering a lot lately. They did an article, um, not to, you know, promote financial planning and my own work, but, uh, did an article recently just on, um, that trend of advisors kind of embracing more of the, uh, the banking technologies, especially as banks are embracing more advisor technologies and doing more wealth and planning, those lines are kind of blurring. And then, you know, I think the two need to, to compete with each other. So, so one thing I just wanna throw out to anybody here is, and I know, you know, Kim mentioned this, she, she does, she feels the industry is still very hot. Um, some we've heard throughout there feel like we, we had a, maybe a decade or so of really rapid, uh, uh, innovation and lots of stuff coming out, especially in the independent advisor space, but maybe in the last year or so, it's kind of plateaued maybe cooled off, but sounds like maybe you guys don't agree with that.
Jim Brown: (
Yeah. We're seeing a market that continues to be very hot. Um, there's, I would say there's been a, a, a little bit of a frenzy in, in the growth PE space, especially for platform deals in the last, um, year and a half, two years or so where everyone's looking to, uh, almost state their claim on a platform that they can use to then build and grow over time. Um, I would say probably more, um, emphasis around that than maybe some of the point solutions.
Edward Shahnasarian: (
Yeah. Spot spot on Jim. Uh, agree completely. The market is still very, very hot and there's a ton of activity in the space. I think the question we ask ourselves all the time is when we see individual point solutions, is this company better by itself? Uh, can, can, can it continue on the growth trajectory for a long period of time by itself as a point solution, or would it fit better into a platform? That's a question we constantly asked ourselves. I think a handful of years ago, there weren't as many platforms in this space that, that, that question didn't exist. But it's an important one to ask yourself as an investor now.
Kim Mackrill: (
Yeah. And really you start wondering which platforms are going to select these point solutions and bring them on how they're all sort of, uh, stratifying around it. Right. Who's going to have the next point solution. It makes the other platform that's sitting next to them, hungry for something similar. It's interesting to see all of that. Um, as the consolidation happens, just who's winding up with what sort of in their arsenal and how they are, are structuring themselves to serve advisors better and better.
Ryan Neal: (
Gotcha. So when you're kind of considering these companies, do you think about, uh, that integration piece when you're, when you're thinking about who to invest in, is that part of your calculus is how well can they integrate with, with other systems out there
Kim Mackrill: (
Definitely is for us. I think there's always that moment of, um, acquisition where you watch somebody move into another firm and then their data is so disparate and, and they cannot talk to each other and you wind up not just with frustrated, uh, users, but frustrated people inside of those firms too. And I actually think that's why we wind up with great innovation in our space is because these sorts of moments continue to happen, where we have really innovative people who get acquired and they wind up inside of another firm and they're thinking of ways to make this better. And so I'm, I'm happy when, um, when those moments happen and they spin out and look for ways to make things smoother and better, not just for advisors, but for retail clients too.
Jim Brown: (
Yeah, I would, I would say, um, to that point, uh, the, the integration issue is front and and center right now within this industry. And it's almost a ticket to admission for us to even look at a investment at this point, because if you don't have good integration technology, uh, good APIs where you can actually talk to other systems, uh, you're not, you're not gonna make it very far in, in this new tech world.
Ryan Neal: (
Yeah. That makes sense. And do you have anything to add on that?
Edward Shahnasarian: (
No agree completely, maybe just one other angle to look at it. I think there's gonna be more and more enterprise and market buyers here as, as a space, as a, as the advisory space gets consolidated. There isn't a best in breed archetype cuz because there's so many different archetypes of advisors, right? So best in breed means something different to many different advisors. So to, to participate in this space long term, you're gonna, you're gonna need to be able to integrate with somebody else and, and frankly, everybody else, cuz every advisor's buying different sets of packages. And if you're not hooked into Tamarac or Ryan Investment or Black Diamond, et cetera, all, all of them, you're you're, you're gonna miss out on a large population, um, of advisors.
Jim Brown: (
Yeah. That's a great point Ed because the, uh, we've seen that in other spaces where, um, the customer base evolves from an SMB to an enterprise and those other spaces we've seen have continually underestimated what it takes to be an enterprise-level solution versus just servicing SMBs. And I think we're gonna see this same thing here.
Ryan Neal: (
That makes sense. And I'm actually gonna, I, I told you guys, I would do this. I'm gonna end up skipping ahead on our, our, our questions a little bit, uh, just to follow up on this consolidation aspect and the enterprise thing. Cause it's definitely something I've noticed with the consolidation, uh, and acquisitions happening. And then also just some of the, uh, startups that have been really successful in our space. Um, you know, now just the natural growth, their company they're going after bigger and bigger clients. Um, you know, uh, the, the enterprise contracts, I, I think I, the great example recently was, uh, eMoney, I believe it was signed on with Wells Fargo and net are 13,000 advisors. I mean, that's huge for a company that started going after, you know, individual RIAs. Um, so what is that, what, what is your take on that? And what's happening in the street? Does this open up a window for maybe a next generation of startups to come up that are focusing on the smaller space? Or are you guys focusing more on the companies that are going after those enterprise deals? Just curious about your thoughts about kind of this trend in the industry.
Ryan Neal: (
Anybody can go, I'll just kind of open it up.
Jim Brown: (
Sure. I think it opens up opportunities in both spaces and it probably depends on the type of firm. Um, whereas more on the VC side, maybe looking at some of the more emerging managers and emerging technologies in the, on the growth side, we are looking for those enterprise solutions, uh, and believe that, uh, that wave of consolidation and, and almost the, uh, what I'd call the professionalization of some of these earlier tech, uh, innovations is happening. And we're looking for that. I don't think it's gonna stop the wave of, of new activity and new innovation that Kim referenced before.
Edward Shahnasarian: (
Yeah, I, I agree. Absolutely. Won't stop the wave. I think it's more of a, a micro question almost business by business and can each, can each business have, have a good technology, have a good product? Can you pivot your, go to market organization and rotate it towards an enterprise sale versus a hundred million RA sale? It's a, it's, it's a totally different ballgame, different sales cycle, different sales talent. Um, it's something we spend a lot of time on here internally with our operations team, helping, helping companies, you know, rotate their go to market to more of an enterprise sale. Um, so it's, it's, it's, it's more of a micro question I'd almost say than, than, than macro for this space. Cause the innovation's gonna continue to happen either way in my mind.
Kim Mackrill: (
Yeah, thankfully. Right. We want things to keep getting better. We want people to have less tab fatigue and for them to serve clients better. So I think I'm super excited about the future and the fact that we're going to keep seeing, you know, a lot of innovation and, and people looking for great ways to solve things both at the enterprise level and also for, you know, the single advisor, right? Both of those are really positive. Mm-hmm
Ryan Neal: (
yeah. Last week I met, uh, in Colorado, I met with a lot of, um, you know, smaller, younger advisors, solo practices and, and there was kind of a sense where they're like, you know, some of those big name technologies are now big names, um, that are going those enterprise deals. They feel maybe a little left out that like, you know, maybe I'm too small or I can't afford it, or they're focusing on, you know, new products for those enterprise firms or their support, whether you, a lot of issues they had. And it was kind of cool cuz there were these new FinTech startups that were there, uh, that were like, no, we wanna go if they know trying to get their foot in the door with the small advisors. And um, I don't know, it was kind of, it was kind of a fun thing to see like the, the circle of life, the uh, the, the new sprouts coming under the big growth, it's kind of a tortured metaphor, but I'm gonna go with it.
Ryan Neal: (
Um, but on that note, you know, one of the most exciting one remember, um, um, Michael Kitces has said the most exciting one he saw was a platform all around, uh, client meetings and, and, and just, it was like a note taking meeting prep, uh, software that he was like, it's a, it's a boring, not kind of, not very, uh, uh, uh, flashy, uh, process, but super helpful for advisors and solving a pain point. I thought that was interesting. And Jim, you kind of mentioned that earlier about, you know, um, your guys's focus of helping advisors, but kind of building on that note. What are some of the biggest opportunities you guys see? Obviously you're not gonna tell us right now, what companies you wanna invest in. Although if you want to please feel free, that'd be great. Um, but, but maybe just kind of generally what sort of, uh, uh, stuff really has you interested? What are you out there looking for? How I'll kick this with Kim first as our, as our VC person.
Kim Mackrill: (
Well, I kind of mentioned it this before that really design first, data first holding both of those in, in your hands and saying these two matter most to us, uh, we're looking for companies that are thinking through what it's like to use them to actually, um, you know, be inside of the interface. Is it intuitive? Is it beautiful? Does it have an emotional connection with the user and then is it completely open? Are you able to use that information that's sitting there? I think there's a lot of, a lot of firms that are still looking for ways to capture the advisor and capture data and want to own all of the experience themselves. We think you should win from a design standpoint and allow that data to be open. So for us, we're really looking for people who are, are data, um, first and, and design first. That sounds crazy, cuz those are two firsts, but I think you've gotta hold them both. And if you lean too far in either direction, you'll, you'll come off the rails. So for us, that's what we're looking for.
Ryan Neal: (
So kind of more generally across the spectrum, you're not necessarily looking at specific whether it's like a communication tool or a planning tool or what have you, but really something that just has that, uh, that, that really design element that, that really brings like a modern experience.
Kim Mackrill: (
Yeah, that's right. I think for us, you know, all of the other normal pieces have to be there too, right? You've gotta have great culture and product market fit. We also really look at what's happening inside of regulation and whether or not people, um, have a, a path forward with it. So for us, we like to, to look at people, who've got a hurdle in front of them and help them overcome it from a regulatory perspective.
Ryan Neal: (
Jim, how about you, anything, anything out there that you're, you're really excited about right now when you guys are, uh, thinking about, you know, new investments to make?
Jim Brown: (
Yeah, we love, uh, what I would call the hybrid model, which is really combining the human-based RIA and the human touch and aspect of, of being an RIA with the right technologies and tools surrounding that. Uh, as such a lot of those solutions will be partly tech and partly what I would call more our services in nature. Uh, what we would call almost tech-enabled services, uh, which we think is very interesting because if you look at a lot of the first wave that came, um, it was a lot of self-service how do I provide tools to individuals, uh, so that they could become their own RIA or service themselves, uh, which it, it, we believe is a tough model. It's at least tough right now. It may change in the future as more of the, uh, of the banking and lending groundwork is, is embedded in, into the tech system, but that's still to come. Uh, we love the hybrid model where really you're, you're combining the best of, of the human aspect as well as the best of technology.
Ryan Neal: (
Gotcha. And, and, and how about, how about you you're, I mean, are you kind of working on a bit different area of the market? Um, well what kind of stuff really, uh, do you see the, the biggest opportunity for us as far as like, uh, an investment you're looking at?
Edward Shahnasarian: (
Yeah. Yeah. I think anything that we invest in Ryan, we'd be trying to build into the next platform in the space, um, that, that, that, that would be our end goal. So everything that we look at is how do, how do, how do we, how do we take this, this, this, this company, this opportunity and, and make, build it to the next level, make it, make it a platform. Um, and that a few things there, you know, defensible value prop, something that the advisors love that they need, something that integrates well into the ecosystem, as we already touched on, um, you know, any, any platform to survive and kind of grow into a, platform's gonna need, you needed to be able to play nice, uh, in the sandbox and integrate with everything else. Um, and then, and then a leadership team and a, in a management team that we think could take a business to, to, to that platform level, which is, you know, rarefied air, um, candidly in this space.
Ryan Neal: (
And just before we move on, I wanna, uh, remind our audience, um, that, you know, this is for you. We wanna be sure that you're getting, uh, you know, what you guys want out of all these sessions. So please send your questions over, uh, you know, whether you're a wealth tech company looking to ask anything from our investors here, or an advisor kind of questions on your mind, please do send them over into the chat and we'll, we'll try to get them out. Um, but in the meantime, um, I'm kind of curious if there's anything out there that you guys are just kind of like over it. Um, is there any, anything in the wealth tech market that maybe it's oversaturated or it's a trend that's pulling back? Uh, is there anything you're just like, no, I'm, I'm sick of hearing about this, moving on, uh, anything at all, like come to mind?
Edward Shahnasarian: (
I'll take a first stab at, um, you know, I I'd, I'd say maybe new portfolio management systems for advisors. Um, you know, as, as we see new ideas, um, you know, new entrepreneurs, they want to be the quote unquote home screen for the advisor. They want to, they want to be the center of attention and the focal point for the advisor, which is great. And it's exciting, and it's a great place to be as a company. You know, the problem is there, there's already, you know, 10 people doing it really well and five of them have real scale. Um, so, so to climb that mountain, you know, from, you know, standing still is, it's, it's a tough, it's a tough endeavor and get the, get the alert of it. But, you know, we, we, we've seen maybe one too many of those, um, you know, in the last year or two.
Ryan Neal: (
Gotcha. Everyone, everyone wants to own the dashboard. Right. But there's only of
Edward Shahnasarian: (
Course
Ryan Neal: (
Dashboards you can have.
Edward Shahnasarian: (
Problem is it's a little bit owned already.
Jim Brown: (
Yeah. Uh, I would, uh, for me, I would just build on an earlier answer I had given, which is, you know, the whole do it yourself, robo advisor, where you're, you're actually just gonna hit the market and try to, um, compile AUM yourself. Uh, and you're sort of another me too, I think is, is very difficult. And I think it's proven very difficult, which is why you're seeing these partnerships develop, uh, as well, another area that, uh, we are in right now, but we think is difficult to launch new, um, uh, products in is the TAMP space. Uh, cuz again, there's a lot of, there's already been a lot of consolidation. Uh, there's a lot of people with a lot of scale in that space already. Uh, and I think the wave is gonna be much more toward consolidation and it's gonna be about, uh, seeing new strategies launched.
Ryan Neal: (
That's interesting. Cause I think that's certainly like that's something I've been following as well as the TAMP space is just growing so much, but there are like there's there's players there that are, you know, doing a good job and then really have their foothold. And uh, so that's interesting. Um, and then Kim, do you have anything you'd like to add?
Kim Mackrill: (
Uh, I think as far as the TAMP space, I find it interesting that there are some, some new people trying to get their feet in the door there and they don't want you to call 'em a TAMP. So I think that's indicative of what's happening there.
Ryan Neal: (
I have that conversation with, uh, PR folks frequently is, uh, it's a lot of people have look like a TAMP smell like a TAMP and act like a TAMP, but get very mad at me if I call them a TAMP. But, uh, anyway, but Kim, anything else? Anything else, uh, that kind of, that you're looking at that you're just you're, you're kind of you're over it?
Kim Mackrill: (
You know, it's crypto. No, I'm just joking. No, I think we covered it. I, I agree with both of them.
Ryan Neal: (
Yeah. The robo thing. It's it's I think we've seen that even with advisors that use the, the white label one to sort of launch like an automated segment. Yeah. I've talked to a lot of people that, you know, they have it, it's fine. It doesn't cost so much to run it, but it's not a, if you build it, they will come situation. Like a lot of people I think have put 'em out there and clients don't show up cuz it makes sense. Right. There's tons 'em out there. How, why would you go to a random one you've never heard of?
Kim Mackrill: (
Well, I, I think the reason why is because they're not design or data first. Oh. If they were designed first and you could actually create an incredible experience, you'd see people march over. And if the data was integrating the way that it should or could, I think you'd see them march over right away. But what we have is kind of people playing in the same at the same level across the board. And if you can't, if you can't excel in your design or in your data integration, you're going to wind up being just another, um, clanging gong in, in the noise that sits in platform spaces. So.
Ryan Neal: (
Great. Well we're, we're, we're kind of nearing the end of our time here that we, we didn't have a lot of it, but um, I'd, I'd love to ask, you know, the, our, our panel was the, the next wave of wealth tech. Right. And so I know we've kind of talked already about what's has you excited where you see opportunities, but maybe looking forward, uh, I don't know, name your window. We can go couple years or five years or 10 years, whatever you wanna do, what insights do you have about where this tech space is going? Where, where are we going towards and, and what are you thinking about this? Where that the future of wealth tech? I'm gonna pick on, uh, I'm gonna go to Ed first. I'm gonna send it over down diagonally.
Edward Shahnasarian: (
Sure. Um, we've touched on a little bit of this call, um, but selling other products, uh, besides just the wealth, the wealth management and the wealth advisory, you know, Kim spends a lot of time in healthcare. Jim mentioned other banking products we're seeing in our portfolio companies, um, you know, at Hightower, um, we, we own Hightower, which is now, um, making a considerable entrance into the insurance space. Um, both personal lines, uh, PNC as well, as well as life. Um, we, we own a, on the other side of the house, uh, a business called AmeriLife, which is a senior health distributor that also owns a TAMP not to use the word TAMP again, uh, that owns, that owns a TAMP because we're seeing the, the demand from clients there, uh, to your buying their senior health insurance to also have their assets managed by the same, same individual. So, so these worlds are, are kind of coming together and the technology that's able, that's going to enable, um, the advisor to, to, to speak both languages and sell both products is I think can be really valuable, you know, over, over the mid and long term.
Ryan Neal: (
So sort of supporting, um, you know, not to use a, a catch phrase from a certain tech company, but like that final from financial wellness, right. That comprehensive, uh, or, or an advisor or a firm can be that one stop one stop shop for all a client's financial needs, whether it's banking or credit or insurance, or what have yous. So the technology that enables that, is that what you're that what you're talking about?
Edward Shahnasarian: (
Yeah, exactly. The advisor has a relationship they're currently monetizing it in one way. How else, how else can they monetize it?
Ryan Neal: (
Great.
Jim Brown: (
It's certainly evolving that way. And we see it evolving that way. Um, where again, this convergence, uh, Ryan, you mentioned the world before of banking and wealth management is, is coming. Uh, and the interesting thing is in wealth management, you have an RIA, a trusted RIA off and in the middle of that, which you don't always have in banking. Uh, it's very, it's much more, uh, impersonal. Uh, and so if the wealth management space can figure out a way to harness these other products, which, which up till now has not been easy, but with technology becomes more doable, uh, we think that's incredibly exciting.
Ryan Neal: (
Gotcha. And I know before I kick it over to Kim, um, Jim, you and I talked in the past about, um, uh, sort of the, the, the, all this innovation has happened under incredibly good market times, right. That it's been really easy. All these things are, you know, all these growth companies have gone up with, with everything's been growing. Um, but eventually that won't be the case that eventually there will be a pullback. And you talk about the need that some of these companies going forward are gonna have to rethink their business, uh, share any comments on that. And just your, your thoughts on that. If, if there, if we do see a market pull back in the next few years?
Jim Brown: (
Sure. You know, it's interesting, it's easy in private equity or so to pat yourself on the back with all the great deals we've all done. And we, we like to believe we've done some really interesting deals, but there's been a lot of tailwinds behind us. AUM has grown significantly, uh, anyone with a basis point, um, a model in terms of pricing has grown. There's been a lot, the profit pool has expanded significantly, and there's been a ton of money raised at the VC and PE level. Uh, and so that's all fueled a, a massive expansion, but with that comes bad habits. And there are some companies out there that are what I would call more products in search of a market, little questionable economics. Um, the, and we believe that there's there's segments that will be very interesting. They will be close to something, but they're gonna need some restructuring. Uh, and so some pain will come with that. Uh, but we think that will open up opportunities for, uh, for some of the larger, uh, and midsize PE firms.
Ryan Neal: (
Interesting. So it sounds like that, that that'll keep me busy as a, as a reporter anyway, can be lots to write about, uh, well, great. Well, we'll, we'll kick it over to you, Kim, for kind of closing thoughts here, I guess, uh, where you look at as you kind of in that future, what, what insights do you have for us?
Kim Mackrill: (
Yeah, I, I think, um, for us, and when we think about the future, we really think about, um, preferential treatment for clients. How do they feel like they're receiving preferential treatment from their advisor and anything that is super high touch and lets them know that they, um, that they have someone who is their advocate standing right next to them, um, and positions the advisor as their most trusted, um, advisor. That's really what we're looking for and what we think the next five years is going to flush out. And we're excited to see, um, how these platforms are able to deliver.
Ryan Neal: (
So creating that real, like personalized experience. Uh, uh, so every client feels like they're getting a unique, uh, service from their, from their advisor. You got it. Great. Well, awesome. Well, we're right about, at the end of our time, uh, I really appreciate you all from joining me again. I love doing this session. I love hearing your perspectives. Um, I hope that the audience enjoyed it and, um, oh, enjoy the rest of the conference. So thank you very much.