On this week's special episode of the Financial Planning Podcast, Ken Van Leeuwen talks about helping his clients pursue goals that are bigger than themselves.
Van Leeuwen, the founder of
During his conversation with FP Podcast host and lead editorial producer Justin L. Mack, Van Leeuwen discussed why having a complete picture of a client's life is crucial for charitable planning; why sharing his own story has been so important these discussions; and advice for new planners doing this kind of work for the first time.
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Justin L. Mack (00:00):
This podcast is sponsored by ALSAC, St. Jude Children's Research Hospital.
Justin L. Mack (00:08):
Good morning, good afternoon and good evening. Welcome to the Financial Planning Podcast. I'm your host, Justin L. Mack, wealthtech editor with Financial Planning. And now it is my pleasure to introduce this week's guest, Ken Van Leeuwen, founder of Van Leeuwen and Company. Ken, thank you so much for joining us this week on a special edition of the Financial Planning Podcast.
Ken Van Leeuwen (00:29):
Well, thank you, Justin. It's always a pleasure to be with you, and I look forward to talking to you about the topic of philanthropy. As we know, or as you know, this topic is very important to me and very important to many of my clients. So it's a pleasure to talk about it.
Justin L. Mack (00:47):
Absolutely. And so glad to have you here. And this week's show is actually part three of a three-part podcast series that Financial Planning is rolling out in the month of May. The series looks at the places where charitable giving and the wealth management industry intersect, and brings you conversations about how planners can provide clear pathways to help their clients give back and leave a legacy. If you haven't, after this episode, go back and check out part one with advisor Thomas Pontius of Kayne Anderson Rudnick. And part two with George Nichols III, president and CEO of the American College of Financial Services. And for part three, I told Ken he's kind of our cleanup hitter. He's wrapping up the three-part series, but he's actually a returning guest to the podcast, and someone who served as a guest for one of our most played episodes of 2022.
(01:32)
To recap for listeners at home and in office, Ken is a 40-year industry veteran who founded his firm in 1997 as managing director. He's responsible for the overall strategic direction of the company and the care of his clients, which include corporate execs, nonprofit organizations, families with special needs and more. Last time we had him here at the mic, he talked about how his business is all about financial planning for the overlooked and underappreciated, an episode well worth revisiting. But I wanted Ken to kind of recap … tell us what your focus is all about. And you kind of talked about at the top of the show, this topic, something very, very important to you, something you're bringing the passion on. Tell us all about the work you do and why it's so important.
Ken Van Leeuwen (02:10):
Well, thank you Justin. Van Leeuwen and Company practices a total financial planning approach, some in the industry call it a holistic approach. I like that term. But I just like to say we like to look at every picture of a person's life. From tax planning to investment planning, to benefit planning to estate planning. And when you're talking and having in-depth conversations with people about their money in all these different areas, and especially in the estate planning area, you really get into some very, I won't say deep, but potentially deep conversations about people. What their goals are with their money, and that's where you learn a lot about them and who they are. And whether it's their children, whether it's their philanthropies, whether or not they're married, where they want their assets to go upon their death. Then you get to learn about their current passions. And philanthropy is a passion for many people, Justin. So it's fun to explore that with them and how they want to pursue that going forward.
Justin L. Mack (03:34):
Absolutely. And you talked a little bit about that opportunity to have conversations, like you said, not necessarily deep, but maybe more revealing. A little bit more personal than conversations you'd have if you didn't start to broach those topics with your clients as they start to tell you more about what they believe in and why they want to support a certain idea or cause. You, as an advisor, get the opportunity to learn more, but maybe open up yourself as well. So talk to me as we kind of kick this conversation off about that very basic start. Because I know it's something you've been through. You've had the experience. But I imagine it's something that developed over time. When you do start to work with a client and you start to see the relationship go from just strictly working on this part of your life to seeing more of your life, and now that starts to include their charitable efforts or their passions, how do you step into that conversation as an advisor in a way that works? In a way that's not too much too soon. I imagine that's kind of tricky.
Ken Van Leeuwen (04:31):
You're right when you say that. It's not something you get to know right away. It's over time because what drives a lot of people when you really get is some in-depth conversations about them, their families, their charities, organizations that have been very good to them through the years, you really get to find some exciting avenues in which to pursue because clients always — or at least the clients that we work with — tend to have bigger goals than just themselves. It's more than just, oh, I want a second home. It's usually, hey, I want to take good care of the university that educated me. Or hey, there's been this social program that has been very good to my family and my life. Or hey, I'm very fond of my church or synagogue or any other type of religious organization. So I think that people, they really get to share with you what their passions are. And then what our job is, is to basically educate them in terms of how they can. If they want to pursue that conversation further, it's about how they can potentially do something for these charities. And frankly, at sometimes a low cost, people always want to do good. And when they know how they can do it effectively and they love it even better.
Justin L. Mack (06:09)
Very, very cool. And you mentioned all those great examples of an individual or a family who wants to give back to an organization they're either extremely loyal to or have a deep connection to. Their university or an organization that has supported them maybe at a time before they could now be in a position to give back. I've had some conversations with some folks who talk about going from maybe someone who didn't come up with much and having support from an organization. They grow up, they're of means, they want to give back. So talk to me about, as an advisor, the opportunity to open up and reciprocate that. Do you ever start to talk about the things you're passionate about or things that you believe in when your client starts to open up in that way? And is that sharing of, I guess, passions beneficial to the business relationship?
Ken Van Leeuwen (07:00):
What we try to do when we work with our clients, because we always say, I'm asking you a lot of questions. And I want you to ask me questions too. I want you to talk to me about my family. I want you to talk to me. Because as some of the listeners know, I have a child, well, he is no longer a child. He's a young adult now, 26 years old, with autism. And that had some very difficult challenges around growing up. So I like to share that. Not because I want to stimulate interest in the organization that my family supports, but just about how that personally meant a lot to my family and how James, my son's name is James, and how James was in this program from the age of one-and-a-half. And now he's still in the same program when he is 26 and living in a group home. So my family considers us very fortunate. That's one of the ways that my family supports that organization. But there's a lot of things, like you said, Justin, that work in people's lives when they step back. I think one of the things is, and I love this about my job really, is that when you really get to talk to clients on a deeper level, you get to understand what makes them tick.
(08:29)
And I have a very good client base because they like to talk to you about what drives them. What gets them up in the morning every day. What they feel has cemented values and helped them grow. And frankly, sometimes in many cases, achieve the wealth and the fortune that they have today. So they're actually great stories that people tell you. So it's wonderful that way.
Justin L. Mack (08:56):
Awesome. And then to follow up on that, talk to me about how that affects your just day-to-day life as an advisor. You kind of mentioned it and you said it's one of the things you love about your job, but I imagine it's got to be very personally fulfilling to be able to have these conversations because these are a lot more interesting conversations to go into than something that's a bit more transactional. I know as a reporter, selfishly, one of my favorite things about my job is I get to talk to strangers all the time. And essentially my job as a reporter, when I was a little kid who wanted to do it, my job was to talk to strangers about something really cool. Really interesting. Really important. And then tell other people about that really interesting, cool thing I learned. So that was kind of my motivation as a little kid who wanted to do this job. And thankfully, I get to now talk to interesting strangers all the time. And I'm much more excited when I know the person I'm talking to really cares about whatever we're talking about.
For you, is there any flavor of that where you get a chance to have conversations that, once you started to open up yourself in that way and have that reciprocal sharing of passions, did you like going to work a little bit more?
Ken Van Leeuwen (10:01):
You know what it is? Especially as, like you've said, I've been doing this for 40 years? One of the things I especially love about my job is that I feel like I'm really helping people get to where they want to go in life. So getting to where they go in life means teaching them how to be charitable. A lot of people don't know how to be charitable. A lot of us, if we grew up in some type of religious affiliation, we maybe knew that on Sundays you put money in a plate. And that was kind of the extent of the charity. But people really didn't understand the power of charitable giving. Now, one of the things that I always say to people is people say, well, yeah, you get some great tax advantages from charitable giving. Yes, the tax benefit is wonderful. It's a great byproduct. But really, it's in their heart and what drives them forward in terms of a passion.
Justin L. Mack (11:12):
All right. With that, we're actually going to take a quick break and enjoy a word from our sponsors. But when we return, we're going to jump right back into our conversation with Ken Van Leeuwen, founder of Van Leeuwen and Company. Stay locked. We'll be right back.
And welcome back to the Financial Planning Podcast. I'm your host, Justin Mack, and we're jumping back into our conversation this week with Ken Van Leeuwen, founder of Van Leeuwen and Company. Now, Ken, right before the break, you said something that really stuck with me, and I think it's important, which is helping your clients or talking to the people you work with about how to be charitable. The right ways to do it. The most effective ways to do it. Because something that I also would love to get your thoughts on aren't just the folks who know exactly the kind of groups they want to give to because they've been a part of their life.
(12:03)
I would love to talk to you about some of the folks who might be newly galvanized to give in some way. People who maybe got interested in a cause recently in the past few years. And I know this timeframe, these past few years have been a time where a lot of causes have been taken up and people have gotten motivated to go out and try and make an impact. So I don't know if you ever get into a spot where you've been working with a client who never was charitably inclined, and now they want to give back for the first time in a substantial way. I imagine a lot of teaching from your part on how to be charitable, especially when it's someone who might not even know which organization they want to give to. But they know they want to help this specific cause or something like that. Talk to me about newly charitable clients, people who are stepping into that for the first time. How do you approach that conversation? What's that like?
Ken Van Leeuwen (12:50):
Well, basically we talk about philanthropic planning, and then in many cases, as per what you say, they don't really have a charity or charities that come to mind right away. So basically what we do, Justin, is we basically send them back or we start to talk to them. The easiest place is to say, how about your university? Or how about your schooling? Or how about is there any cause? Especially sometimes if you find out that your client's parents have passed away or brothers or sisters (because) of some type of health condition. That also is something to raise awareness of to people. To say, my dad died of a heart attack. Well, have you ever considered the American Heart Association? I'm giving that as an example. Or medical care, for example. Justin. That's where St. Jude comes into play because they did some talking to people about that.
(13:55)
And Justin, I will tell you, everybody loves a child. I have never found that anybody didn't care for kids. So sometimes you can just light the fire and go, oh yeah, that sounds really good. And then I say, of course there's the broad national charities, but maybe there's someone local. Something local in your town that you may be able to help with, or even a community foundation. And sometimes what people do, especially as folks get older, they like to be involved and sometimes their business skills or their organization skills where they can volunteer at these charities. It's not just about money too, Justin. It's about volunteering your time in a lot of cases, because a lot of nonprofits need talented people for volunteers as well.
Justin L. Mack (15:02):
Absolutely. And then something else I'd love to get your thoughts on is having the conversation with folks who are seeking more transparency because they want to make sure not only are they charitably inclined. They want to make sure that their investments align with what they do believe in, because for whatever reason, they are more passionate about one thing or another. I think the examples you gave are very, very powerful. Losing a loved one to a condition. Taking up cause to make sure that awareness is raised for that, that is something very new. It can happen overnight, but when it does, it's just as deeply rooted as any other belief that client may have, even though it's brand new. So you almost have to be very delicate with their passion because it is brand new, but it's very deep. So again, powerful stuff to be talking about with your book of business.
(15:49)
But for folks who are looking for more transparency, tell me how you talk about that, because I know that is something a lot of people are very much interested in making sure that even if they're not giving, do my investments give back in some way? Are they working with companies that are above board for whatever someone might consider above board? Just that transparency conversation, which again, as a reporter, I'm glad people are having. But talk to me about how you talk to those clients who are more anxious to learn exactly where their dollars are going and what kind of impact they're having.
Ken Van Leeuwen (16:22):
Sure. So what happens is there's many services out there, I believe one of them is called GuideStar, where you can actually see, out of every dollar you are to give, what's the percentage that actually goes to the cause rather than overhead expenses. I think most people nowadays want to look at that. They want to determine if their money is going to work rather than in a corporate salary. For lack of a better word, they want their dollars to hit the pavement, And I think that's super important for folks. So I think a lot of people do some research on that because we ask them to do the research because, again, one of the things is I have my charities, my passions, but my goal is not to influence you and about your passions or where your money wants to go to. So I want to help educate them in the ways that they can give. And then the light bulb goes on and they say, wow, I didn't realize I could do this. And as we know, there are so many great good financial techniques that folks can do to help them achieve their charitable passions.
Justin L. Mack (17:44):
Fantastic. And as we kind of transition here to the closing parts of the show, and want to thank Ken for joining us this week on this very special episode and joining us for the second time here on the Financial Planning Podcast. But Ken, usually we close with some patented financial planning podcast good vibes. I usually ask folks, like I did last time I had you here, what's your favorite thing about your job? What's that passion? What keeps you coming back? And I always love asking that question, especially when we get experienced folks like yourself who've been doing it for as long and at the level that you have. That advice kind of rings for the next generation. But I've already asked you what your favorite thing about your job is, so I won't do that again.
Instead, sticking on the topic, I think about the next generation of financial advisors, planners, folks who can learn a lot from hearing your experiences and everything you've shared today when they start working with these kinds of folks. These charitably inclined folks for the first time. So they're brand new, they don't have the experience, it's something new. It's going to be the first time they might open up in the way that you have with your clients and share your story to share those passions and have that conversation. It might be a little uncomfortable for someone who maybe is more numbers-driven or more focused on that part of the business. Any tips you can give? Any help for that new planner who's going to jump into this world for the first time?
Ken Van Leeuwen (19:04):
Yeah. What I do is, you just have to ask. And you just have to say to them, what drives you in your life? How do you see your money passing after you've passed away? I mean, you need to talk to them about how they also get to where they are today, Justin. Right? I mean, you can basically say everybody wants to work with that affluent client, right? But there's usually a story and how they got there. It's not that they just happened to be affluent. They may have gotten a great college education on a scholarship. They may have got somebody, a mentor in their life, let's say a boys or a girls club that really lifted them up and took them to that next level. You've got to talk to them. And those are just frankly, the standard financial planning questions. Because all of us in the profession know, how do you develop good relationships with clients?
(20:06)
You ask them good questions. So asking them good questions. Not being afraid to ask them questions. Because as we all know too, clients like to be heard and they like to be listened to. So I think that's super important. And then you can translate it over time into things that will be beneficial for them. So I think that it's a process. it's not a product sale. It's a feeling that you develop over time and then when appropriate, you can suggest that to clients, especially when you're looking overall at their whole financial planning picture. And another big thing is, Justin, that's what drives me in this business. You're doing good for society. You really are going to make a difference in somebody else's life that you will probably never meet, but it is a really, really cool thing if you think about it. And that's the way we can all benefit society.
Justin L. Mack (21:20):
Absolutely. And I can't think of a better way to end than that. Those ways to go deeper, those ways to have a big impact and being able to do it while doing your job, and serving your client. Again, that's pretty cool. So thank you so much for sharing that with us, Ken, and for joining us once again on the Financial Planning Podcast.
And I want to thank everyone for listening to this week's Financial Planning Podcast. This episode was produced by Arizent with audio production by Kevin Parise. Special thanks again to our guest, Ken Van Leeuwen, founder of Van Leeuwen and Company. Rate Us, review us and subscribe to all of our content at
This podcast is sponsored by St. Jude Children's Research Hospital. Information shared in this podcast is intended for educational purposes only and does not replace independent professional advice or judgement. The statements of fact and opinions expressed herein are those of the authors and, unless expressly states to the contrary, are not the opinion or position of the sponsor or any member of the sponsor organization.