Ric Edelman on how much should financial advisory firms lean into crypto?

An engaging session featuring Ric Edelman on where crypto should fit into advisors' work and clients' wealth management portfolios.

Transcription:

Lynnley Browning: (00:07)
Thank you so much for being here. I'm very pleased to welcome Ric Edelman to our panel to talk about crypto. I have told Ric that I'm going to hold his feet to the crypto fire, and hopefully there will be no sinned flesh, but he gracefully and confidently accepted the challenge. So let's dive right in. Thank you for being here, it's been obviously a very rough year for crypto. Bitcoin is down more than 50% this year, trading it around 21,000. some exchanges are, block by firms are laying off staff. Some coins have completely cratered, it's not pretty and none other than bill gates really piled on the other day when he called both crypto and NFTs non fungible tokens evidence of the 100% greater fool theory. This is just this year alone. We don't have to go into prior traumas with illicit finance and silk road. We all know about that. So Ric, how's this crypto thing working out for you and has what has happened this year alone, the implosion, the meltdown, the crypto winner changed your investment thesis at all.

Ric Edelman: (01:36)
What's going on right now has not changed the thesis in the slightest. And it's good to be with you Lynnley. Thanks very much for the invitation to be here. What's going on right now is nothing surprising, nothing new since Bitcoin's inception in 2009, seven times, it has fallen 70% or more. And this is just number seven, so nothing new or surprising. What is fascinating is that if you look at Bitcoin's now 13 years old, if you take a look at the first 13 years of Google, Amazon, Apple, Microsoft Facebook, you'll see the exact same stock price chart as you do for Bitcoin. When you're dealing with a new innovative technology, it's bumpy, it's really bumpy. And only the forward thinking long term gutsy investors are going to invest should be investing, so there's nothing really surprising Bitcoin, and digital assets broadly blockchain technology is finding its way it's, developing it's emerging, it's growing, it's gaining mainstream. So this kind of volatility is you just shrug it off as, development of the technology. It's not a real surprise.

Lynnley Browning: (02:56)
Let's talk about the specifically the volatility and the bumpiness, which obviously is a very extreme no is it fidelity?

Ric Edelman: (03:06)
No, no, no. That is a false premise. And it's really hysterical to me that people are saying, look at the incredible volatility of Bitcoin this year. You said it yourself. It's down 50%. Netflix is down 70. I don't see anybody saying we should ban Netflix from 401ks, but

Lynnley Browning: (03:20)
Netflix also doesn't face the regulatory and fiduciary issues

Ric Edelman: (03:24)
And neither does Bitcoin Bitcoin does. No, absolutely not. There are no regulatory or fiduciary concerns. In fact, just the opposite. so let me break it down. Cause those are two different questions. Fiduciary versus regulatory on a regulatory side, the government has fully embraced Bitcoin fully, president Biden in March issued the first ever executive order from the white house calling on the full force of the federal government to foster the development and innovation of digital assets and the creation of a CBDC Janet yellen, who a year ago said Bitcoin's only uses illicit now says that it's time for a CBDC even Elizabeth Warren has gone public in the last three weeks saying it's time for the fed issue, a central bank digital currency. So there are 46 bills in Congress right now to create legislation calling for the regulatory environment of crypto. We have clear rules from the IRS SEC FINRA CFTC, FTC treasury fin send all with very clear rules. We have states around the country that are clamoring to bring crypto to their states. Ted Cruz said it two days ago that he wants to make Texas the Oasis for crypto for the planet we've had, on the other side of the spectrum, Maxine waters, the chair of the financial services committee in the house saying that we are in a digital space race and it's vital for the United States to keep up.

Lynnley Browning: (04:54)
I just wanna, Bitcoin is taking his paycheck in, the mayor of Miami is taking his paycheck in Bitcoin. So is the mayor of New York here, with mayor Adams. Okay, Let's unpack this number one in no particular order. The IRS is not completely clear about the tax treatment of Bitcoin in particular, when it concerns things like hard forks and certain types of exchanges. And that lack of clarity from the international journal revenue code has created a lot of uncertainty and potential tax nightmares for, crypto traders and owners. Number two on the regulatory front to say that everything regulatory is taken care of and that there is no issue. That's not quite the case. In fact, we have a new bipartisan legislative proposal that wants is piling on again and is yet more evidence of efforts to define and regulate this space. So

Ric Edelman: (05:56)
I'm not suggesting that the regulations are all intact and in place. What I'm suggesting is that the government is now fully supportive at the federal and state levels of the innovation development of the technology.

Lynnley Browning: (06:08)
It's supportive of regulating the development And technology.

Ric Edelman: (06:12)
That's exactly what the crypto Community saying. The government is very much supportive of it. What we need are the rules of the road. Think back to the model T innovation always comes. First regulation always comes second. It was only after the model came out onto the highways or the dirt roads of the era. That first thing you have are cars on the road. And the second thing you have are car accidents. That's what causes governments to say. We need rules of the road. We need white lines painted. We need stop signs, speed limits, and driver training and safer automobiles. The regulations always come second. So the regulations are going to be coming. The crypto industry is calling very strongly for these regs because we need rules of the road. We don't care what the rules are. We just need to know what they are because regulation by enforcement, which we all know is a common strategy of the SEC is never healthy. So yes, you're absolutely right. The regs are not always in place, but a lot of them are and more are gonna be coming over the next couple of years, the FASB two weeks ago just said, unanimously, we're going to create accounting rules to give corporate treasuries the rules of the road they need for their crypto investments. Once those rules are in place, you'll see greater institutional adoption, because as you said, some of it is murky. We know how Bitcoin is taxed. There is complete clarity from the IRS. What we don't know, like you said, we don't know about hard forks. We don't know about airdrops. We don't know about staking and lending and mining. And the reason we don't is that all of these are brand new innovations. They didn't exist 10 years ago.

Lynnley Browning: (07:44)
Which Means that the tax framework and the taxation of crypto is not yet in place. But you had said that it's completely clear.

Ric Edelman: (07:53)
There is complete clarity on a great number of tax elements. For example, we know that Bitcoin and Ethereum are not securities. They are considered property by the IRS. And that means that it's taxed just like other capital assets with capital gains rules. That is complete clarity. We understand that there is no wash sale rule with Bitcoin and Ethereum. You can sell it today, take your loss and immediately rebuy it. You don't have to wait 30 days like you do for a security. So there are great many rules that are absolutely known. There are others that are unknown, and we have development underway to suggest that this means negativity is really just, a silly distraction, has nothing to do with the underlying development of the technology and the increased activity that we are seeing in the marketplace.

Lynnley Browning: (08:40)
So Let me ask a question. What is bill gates not getting if bill gates, the co-founder of Microsoft itself, an extraordinarily innovative technology, when it first appeared says that or Apines rather that, crypto is evidence of the 100% greater fool theory. What is bill gates not getting

Ric Edelman: (09:01)
Well? Anybody who buys stocks as an idiot because Bernie Madoff was a crook. I mean, that's kind of an extremism statement. So bill is right on a couple of really important points that we all really need to understand. There is no doubt that when you're developing a new, innovative technology, there's going to be a lot of experimentation in the marketplace. Many of those experiments fail. As we saw recently with Tara Luna, I mean, stable coins make a great deal of sense. The federal reserve has endorsed the concept and believes that their CVC sit alongside stable coins, but an algorithmic stable coin. That's just a disaster waiting to happen. People asked me if I was surprised that Terra Luna collapsed and my response was I'm surprised it took so long. So some of these experiments are going to fail simultaneously. You have a lot of gimmicks in the marketplace. Some are outright frauds and scams, but others are just get rich, quick schemes that are designed as pump and dumps. And you saw a lot of that in the NFT marketplace. That's what bill gates is referring to. And he's absolutely right. I'll tell you where I saw the top of the market in the NFT space. It only occurred three weeks ago, and I talked about it on my radio show, there is a yacht builder in Seattle. That's building a 200 foot yacht retail price, $95 million, nothing unusual there. They decided to issue an NFT of the schematics of the yacht. Okay. That's kind of fun. You wanna see what this yacht is built of and the state rooms and all that. That's kind of cool. They priced the NFT at 95 million, yacht, not included

Ric Edelman: (10:38)
That to me was bargain. Yeah, we're done. And so that is the greater full theory that bill gates is talking about. There's a lot of nonsense in this marketplace and we have to learn about this marketplace so that we can separate the nonsense from the fundamental technologies that are absolutely revolutionary. I'll give you another example of an NFT really quick. Yeah. Hotels are now selling hotel rooms, like the Hilton here as NFTs so that you can book your room by buying an NFT. And if you end up canceling, normally you lose your money. Cause you decided you couldn't go to the hotel on that date. But now that it's an NFT, you can sell the NFT in the open marketplace, just like you buy concert tickets and you can resell them in the open marketplace. You can do that now with hotel rooms, hotels get guaranteed revenue, cuz you've bought the NFT with the hotel space. You don't worry about being stuck with a hotel room. You can't use that is a remarkable, innovative use of the technology. That's not the insanity that bill gates is referring to. So we need to learn educationally how to separate the nonsense from the underlying tech. That's really cool. That is gonna transform the way commerce is done in the future.

Lynnley Browning: (11:50)
Okay. You have referred to, in your words, insanity nonsense and experiments amid those three very undesirable things why should crypto be in a retirement portfolio and is Fidelity's plan extremely risky? And then I wanna get into the fiduciary issues that brings up. We will get into that, but the department of labor is not particularly happy with fidelity and is going to go over its application with a fine tooth comb.

Ric Edelman: (12:25)
DOL has already backtracking off their initial statement. they said they had grave concerns. They're already backtracking. They're being sued by the way, from another 401k provider called 40 all, because they have no, statutory or regulatory basis for their objection. But here's to answer your question, is it smart for fidelity to add Bitcoin as an offering in its 401ks? This is a big deal cause that's we all know fidelity is the largest 401k provider in the country. 23,000 companies, tens of millions of workers, 3 trillion in assets. Well a few months ago. and so is it a good idea? It's brilliant. It's absolutely fabulous. For a lot of reasons. We know the best way to invest, right? We would all agree. I convinced that the single best investment strategy, any of us would ever recommend to a client is dollar cost averaging, right? Because we know over time, it smooths out the volatility consistent long term investing makes a great deal of sense. That's why we love 401ks it's dollar cost averaging at its best. Every paycheck, little bit of money goes into the account. Where do we invest? When we're dollar cost averaging the most volatile investment we can find, we need the price volatility to make DCA work, right? Wouldn't make any sense to dollar cost a average into a money market fund. So we use stock funds because they're the most volatile investments we can find along comes Bitcoin, which is even more volatile than stock funds. So if you wanna maximize your dollar cost averaging, don't use an emerging markets fund, which is pretty volatile. Use Bitcoin. It's even more volatile. You get to do this on a tax deferred tax deductible basis with employers giving you free employer match.

Ric Edelman: (14:00)
And this is the ideal way to invest for the long term in this fundamental technology. It makes perfect sense to the point. Employers are going to start using this feature as a recruitment tool for workers come work for us will give you free Bitcoin, 20% of U.S adults own Bitcoin. Right now they're buying it on their own outside of you cuz you're not helping them. And they will love the idea that their boss is now letting them buy Bitcoin inside the 401k. 30% of us workers don't invest anywhere because they can't afford to except their 401k. This gives them the chance to buy Bitcoin in a way they otherwise would never be able to do it for greater inclusion. This is part of the mainstreaming of the asset. So why do you need to do it? Because it's not going away. It's here. Your clients are investing in it. They haven't, you just like your teenagers are drinking beer. They haven't told you that either because they're afraid of your judgment. They're afraid of your reaction. You need to recognize this is simply yet another asset class. If you truly believe in diversification, why would you say no to this?

Lynnley Browning: (15:05)
But why would someone who is say, let's take a hypothetical person, maybe they're 60, 65 years old. They're being told by you, you really should have some Bitcoin exposure, why should someone at that age nearing, the end of their work life put any of their portfolio into an asset that is so extraordinarily volatile

Ric Edelman: (15:32)
For the same reason, you would tell them to buy an emerging markets fund, that 65 year old might be near the near the end of their work life, but they're not near the end of their life. Actuarily. They're gonna be alive for another 30 or 40 years. Right. And therefore they have an incredible long way to go. So I'm only recommending a 1% allocation read my book. You've all got a copy of it. They're available at the front. If you don't, I'm recommending only a 1% asset allocation.

Lynnley Browning: (15:56)
Are you personally at 1% or more?

Ric Edelman: (15:58)
I'm overweight.

Lynnley Browning: (16:00)
How overweighted are you? If you believe in your thesis? How overweighted are you?

Ric Edelman: (16:11)
I'm pretty overweighted

Lynnley Browning: (16:12)
Are you double digit? Overweighted

Ric Edelman: (16:14)
I'm pretty overweighted.

Lynnley Browning: (16:17)
Do I take that as a yes.

Ric Edelman: (16:18)
I'm pretty overweighted, but recognize I've been in this space since 2012, it's part of my business. I'm pretty deep in my knowledge set and my engagement with a lot of crypto companies and a lot of financial services companies I'm highly diversified. I also don't have children. So who cares if I lose it? so I would not recommend what I'm doing for anyone. And that's why I say publicly 1% allocation is plenty, by the way, here's a great statistic. I'm willing to bet that for your clients who own Bitcoin in the last six to nine months, they've lost more money in Facebook than they have in Bitcoin, because Facebook is 1.2% of the S and P 500. Your clients are bigger exposed to Netflix. Peloton.

Lynnley Browning: (17:01)
That's actually an extremely compelling argument. And it's the first time I've heard someone make that it's a really powerful way of framing. The 1% allocation. When you look at the S and P 500, the top 10 are, cogging up 80%, 90% so

Ric Edelman: (17:23)
Now let me take it a step further. Thank you. You're welcome for that to me, but I'll give you another argument. I don't really care if you like Bitcoin or not. I don't really care if you buy Bitcoin or not. That's not my job. It's not, I'm not my concern. We will all make individual choices as to the client's portfolio allocation. I mean, you will make different decisions for different clients, right? Not every one of your clients has emerging markets in their portfolio. You'll do that. You'll figure that out. You're a good fiduciary. Let me mention the fiduciary thing, please. As a fiduciary, you are going to discover you're going to get in more trouble by not doing Bitcoin than by doing Bitcoin. I'm heavily involved in what's going on in the regulatory, environment in DC. I'm involved in the chamber of digital assets chamber of digital commerce with the association of digital asset markets. I meet with the SEC a lot. I had a meeting last week with federal reserve officials. Let me tell you what compliance lawyers are saying five years ago. You got a question in your exam. Why are you buying Bitcoin? Five years ago was tough to justify that today. The question is changing by the SEC examiners. The question is becoming why aren't you allocating to crypto?

Lynnley Browning: (18:32)
The question has changed, but the asset, which the question is addressing has not changed. Is that not evidence of a potential problem?

Ric Edelman: (18:43)
No. The issue is not that you need to be advocating or incorporating crypto. That's not what the SEC wants to know. The SEC wants to know just as you have a rationale, a development, a due diligence on why you do what you do for your client. Show us that for crypto. If you can't give them a good reason as to the due diligence, you've, engaged in the analysis. You've concluded as to why you are not recommending crypto. If your only answer is, oh, I think it's a tulip bulb or a beanie baby. I'm gonna mention silk road, which is 10 years ago. That's like referring to the fact I'm afraid of Scott stocks. Cause they crashed in 87. That's not gonna cut it as a fiduciary. You need to demonstrate your thoughtfulness, your due diligence, your extensive analysis that led you to the conclusion of why you did or did not give your client. The advice you gave or did not give my point is I don't care whether you buy Bitcoin or not. I put Bitcoin in the same category as annuities. Every advisor has a strong opinion about annuities. We love 'em or we hate 'em. We use 'em routinely or we never use 'em.

Lynnley Browning: (19:52)
Bitcoin and annuities are the broccoli very polarizing.

Ric Edelman: (19:57)
Absolutely. Right however, you feel about annuities. I guarantee this you're able to explain to your client in great detail, why you feel the way you feel about annuities, why you love them, why you hate 'em, who should use them? How, not how much to put in them, which ones to buy, why to buy them, et cetera. You simply need to be able to do things. The same thing with crypto. I don't care whether you like it or not. I need you to be knowledgeable amount about it. So you can intelligently talk about it with your client. For example, do you know about the tax rules regarding crypto? Do you know how staking and lending is done? What happens if they get an Aird drop? What happens if there's a fork? Do you know the tax rules? How about a state planning? A lot of these sites, for example, at Coinbase, the account is open in a single name. Only can't do a joint account. Can't do a trust account. Can't do an IRA account. How do you do your estate planning on behalf of a client? If you're not able to manage the asset or at least even be aware of the asset?

Lynnley Browning: (20:50)
If Bitcoin is the greatest thing since slice spread why is, are you only at 1%? I didn't as a recommendation.

Ric Edelman: (20:59)
So that's a really good question. Here's the real reason. Crypto is scary to neophytes, right? This is no indifferent. Most of us haven't spent a lot of time studying it. All we see is the price volatility. And we hear about the scams. The FTC just said a billion dollars was lost last year to crypto scams, by 46,000 American investors. Last year alone, we hear these stories. We see the price volatility. We see the Monday crypto crash, and this is scary stuff. 1% is enough. You'll read this chapter in my book, 1% allocation is enough to materially improve the return. But if Bitcoin does blow up and it goes worthless. So what 1% isn't going to destroy your client's financial life. It won't prevent them from retiring in financial security. It'll be annoying, not devastating. So 1% just allows you to get your toe in. The water allows you to get in involved. As you get involved, perhaps you'll begin to learn more. You'll get more accustomed. You'll become more familiar, just like you would say to a client who's risk averse. Let's put a little bit into the stock market. Not a lot. Let's do a little bit. Let's do it on a dollar cost averaging basis. Let's rebalance. Let's do tax loss, harvesting. Let's manage the asset class the way we do all other asset classes and this way we can see how it goes. That's the basic point. So

Lynnley Browning: (22:23)
We Clearly see digital currencies as an asset class and not as an alternative to Fiat currency, which of course is the original premise of Bitcoin, Ethereum cetera.

Ric Edelman: (22:37)
So you raised two different points, digital currency versus digital asset currencies are stable coins. They are meant to peg the us dollar. They are an alternative to dollars set them aside. That's not an investment category, the digital assets, Bitcoin, Ethereum, and all the others and coins and tokens NFTs. Those are assets, just like individual stocks are assets and real estate and bonds and gold and oil, et cetera. Those are assets and yes, they are an alternative asset classrooms. There

Lynnley Browning: (23:07)
Are branches of the federal government and agencies that do not consider those to be assets, spinson considers Bitcoin to be an actual currency, which is kind of odd.

Ric Edelman: (23:18)
It is odd. And it's demonstrating that a lot of government regulators yet themselves don't understand what they're talking about.

Lynnley Browning: (23:24)
Let's open the floor up to some questions because, that always surfaces really interesting thoughts and ideas. I don't know if we have a microphone. Does anyone have a question.

Speaker 3: (23:37)
I'm on my way? Hold on.

Ric Edelman: (23:40)
Let me mention while the mic is coming that the educational element, which is so crucial is why I created, this organization, the digital assets council of financial professionals, and why we created the certificate in blockchain and digital assets, an online self-study course that teaches you about blockchain tech, what it is, how it works. And the second half of the course, all about practice management, the investment thesis, regulation, taxation, and compliance, and how to communicate with clients about this. You need to get the knowledge in this space so that you don't look dumbfounded. When a client asks you basic questions, what is blockchain? What is Bitcoin you're missing out on AUM? You're missing out on the ability to serve your client by maintaining ignorance in this field. You wouldn't do it in any other asset class. My challenge to you simply is don't do it in crypto.

Speaker 3: (24:28)
Okay. I think we have a Question right here. Yeah. Just one question. What is the biggest impact in crypto? That means financial system is real estate transactions. Where is the true impact that's gonna have, like in how many years?

Ric Edelman: (24:42)
So McKinsey suggests that by the end of the decade, the global GDP will be 70% digital. We are moving to a digital economy and the, it is going to be largely in the metaverse. Everybody keeps talking about Bitcoin, but that's kind of old news. The big thing right now are NFTs. And the next big thing is going to be the metaverse. We have to recognize that it's incredibly powerful. Underlying technology, Satoshi Nakamoto, who invented crypto made a huge mistake in the white paper that was written in 08 because it referred to Bitcoin as a peer to peer payment system, big mistake. And that set us all down the wrong path. Let me reset it for you to frame the conversation. Blockchain technology is software that's all right. It's just software. It's another way that businesses can use software to operate their business. That allows them to transact faster, cheaper, safer with greater transparency and inclusion.

Ric Edelman: (25:42)
That's all there is to it. Every industry in the world can use the tech. I'll give you one illustration, Parma, Jano Reggiano. One of the largest cheese manufacturers in Italy, you've all eaten their cheese. That's absolutely fabulous. They do two and a half billion dollars a year in revenue. And they face counterfeiting of almost the same amount. So they have now adopted blockchain technology, where they are inserting a chip into the wheels of cheese. The chip is the size of a grain of salt and it's edible. It's safe. And this allows them to track the wheel of cheese from the factory to the store so that you, the consumer, when buying the cheese can be guaranteed authenticated, cryptographically, that the cheese you're buying is real and not fake. If a cheese manufacturer can use blockchain technology to build and support its business. Just imagine how every industry on the planet can do this. It's not about Bitcoin.

Lynnley Browning: (26:45)
I have to go back to one thing. Do you have your own theories on who Satoshi is or what? Yes, of course. What, what are your theories?

Ric Edelman: (26:52)
Who Is he? I don't talk about

Lynnley Browning: (26:53)
Why is it a secret?

Ric Edelman: (26:58)
It's you're not my mother. I don't have to answer, No.

Lynnley Browning: (27:00)
I'm not your mother. Thank God, but what why? I mean, everyone speculates.

Ric Edelman: (27:10)
That's right. It's fun to do.

Lynnley Browning: (27:12)
So have some fun with us.

Ric Edelman: (27:13)
Who Cares?

Lynnley Browning: (27:15)
I do these guys. Do

Ric Edelman: (27:16)
I don't think there's anybody in the room who cares.

Lynnley Browning: (27:18)
Yes. Raise your hand. If you care who Satoshi is,

Ric Edelman: (27:24)
Find something else to care

Lynnley Browning: (27:25)
About. Okay let's go for another question. Anybody have a Question?

Speaker 4: (27:31)
You've talked a lot about Bitcoin and NFTs. I'm just curious if you have opinions on other protocols like Ethereum, Solana, Cardo, and just how to assess those.

Ric Edelman: (27:41)
You're asking in the context of what should I be investing in? Yes. Okay. So you should have said that. What should I be investing in? A lot of people make this conversation way too complicated because we keep hearing all these different words and phrases and we don't understand. So you're asking the key questions. So here's my answer. I'm gonna give you four answers. One just by Bitcoin. It's 50%. I mean, this is assuming you're going to engage. If you're going to engage that's if not. Okay. You're welcome. So number one by Bitcoin, call it a day. It's the oldest, the largest, the most penetrated, the best known. It's the one with the greatest institutional adoption. It's gonna be last man standing. If the whole thing does collapse just by Bitcoin, call it a day. It's 50% market share right now. Number two buy Ethereum.

Ric Edelman: (28:25)
Ethereum is the number two coin. It's about 20, 25% market share. I'm actually more excited about Ethereum than Bitcoin. I am more Ethereum than Bitcoin because Bitcoin is dumb money. If I send you my Bitcoin, you get it. I might not want you to, I might want you to get my Bitcoin or my money only if you do something for me, like send me the deed to your house or give me concert tickets, or only if Biden wins or loses the next election or what have you. It's an if then contract and that's what Ethereum is. It's programmable money smart contract. It allows us to engage without intermediaries, without lawyers, without escrow agents. It allows businesses to operate faster, cheaper, safer cryptographically on the internet. So Ethereum has huge commercial application beyond Bitcoin. So one by Bitcoin two by Ethereum three, by both diversify.

Ric Edelman: (29:14)
A little bit of Bitcoin, a little bit Ethereum, 50, 50, 60, 40, 40, 60. Knock yourself out. Number four, if you wanna be even further diversified B I T w the Bitwise 10 crypto index fund it is, considered the S and P 500 a crypto. It owns the top 10 digital assets by market cap. So Bitcoin and Ethereum are the top two with about 70, 80%. And then the other 20% are the other eight top coins, and names. You probably never even heard of Solana, polka dot Aran Ave, unit swab. You probably never even heard of these anymore than you can name all 500 stocks in the S and P 500. Who knows, who cares? I'm just gonna do it. It gives me the diversification. I don't have to build my own portfolio. I can manage my client instead. And a disclosure. I'm an investor in bit wise.

Lynnley Browning: (30:02)
Next question, please. I can't say, Rick, thank you so much.

Ric Edelman: (30:10)
My pleasure. Thank

Lynnley Browning: (30:12)
Time. I appreciate it.